Suggestion: Single Player "Tutorial" Dungeons (no rewards)

[Ladyaceous]

How many times have you been told or heard it said, "You should really go watch a video."?

I will gladly explain something to someone, I will never ridicule them for not watching a video, but I personally almost always watch a vid for any new encounter.

Let's just face the facts here though. There is a huge divide in the community right now. Not necessarily over the sentiment you should always watch a video first (which there is) but over player skill and willingness to study for the sake of enjoyment. Some players are simply going to enter an instance without watching a video. They have that right. Players also have the right to say they don't believe they should have to explain every single mechanic to someone who hasn't watched a video. It's a lot different explaining an encounter to someone who's watched a video when you're just filling in the gaps, as opposed to 3-4 people who have no idea or strategy on how to detonate the bombs in The Minstrel's Ballad for example (which is really a mild example compared to most of the end game content).

For those who might say, "It's an online game....you have access....go watch a video." That's not always true. Some players tend to forget that not everyone is playing on a PC. They might be parents enjoying their free time after a hard days work on their ps3/ps4, while their kid is in the den doing their homework online. Sure it might be easy to say, "Hold on child, let me look this up first." However, as a parent, I wouldn't do that because homework is more important and it sets a bad example. Could I just wait to do the encounter? Sure. But there is a better way:

• Implement a tab similar to the join in progress tab that would say "single player training".
  
• The player could go into any encounter they like with infinite health and a significant damage modifier.
  
• There would be absolutely no reward from doing this outside of maybe a couple mildly significant achievements.

Maybe the implementation could be different. What I am suggesting I am suggesting because it seems like the path of least resistance. I'm sure SE would want to avoid making "learning dungeons" from scratch at all costs, and I wouldn't blame them.

For anyone who might think, "This seems unnecessary" I respectively disagree. While the jobs are all very well balanced for the most part, the content is heavily reliant on instant death/near death mechanics and group coordination. As of now we can assume this is probably not going to change.

Worried your favorite uploader will stop making vids? Don't be. There would still be a need for people to go online and watch a vid in a serious static environment. There would be a substantial difference in going into something solo, and then watching how it translates to a group environment.

Imo, this "wall" is what is unnecessarily dividing the community and helping to enable the toxicity already running rampant in online gaming. I think it would be an easy idea to implement, and imo, has become almost necessary considering the nature in which the end game content is designed.

Thoughts?

[VanilleFang]

I always watch videos as well, and have never had anyone tell me to do so. I do it because personally I don't want to hinder my party by not knowing what to do. I don't care if people don't watch videos, but I will always watch them.

But anyway, on to your idea.

My only thought on it is what makes you think anyone would actually use this "training"? I've seen many people say they don't want to watch videos because they would rather go in not knowing what will happen, and enjoy learning from wiping, than knowing what is to come. So this training wouldn't really do much for those types of players, and it seems like more of a hassle than anything really. I can't see people spending their time playing through a tutorial of a dungeon they can just queue up for and just ask people what they need to do, like it is now with those who don't watch videos.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Technically, the guildhests are tutorials since they teach the players various mechanics they could face and the final one is a full party instance that teaches the tanks to split up and get all the mobs.


The only reason everyone is in the "video or GTFO" mindset is they already learned how to do the content and don't want to be held back by people who are new since it would put a damper on efficient farming. Speed runs also don't help this matter.

[Cherryblossoms]

I think its a great idea. I still havent gotten my titan ex clear. Ive watched the videos countless times but Id rather practice. That said, for your idea to work, it would have to follow the mechanics. So for me, i would still need a tank for positioning. I couldnt practice as bard without one.

[Ladyaceous]

Thank you very much for reading the original post in it's entirety Fang

I always watch videos as well, and have never had anyone tell me to do so. I do it because personally I don't want to hinder my party by not knowing what to do. I don't care if people don't watch videos, but I will always watch them.

But anyway, on to your idea.

My only thought on it is what makes you think anyone would actually use this "training"? I've seen many people say they don't want to watch videos because they would rather go in not knowing what will happen, and enjoy learning from wiping, than knowing what is to come. So this training wouldn't really do much for those types of players, and it seems like more of a hassle than anything really. I can't see people spending their time playing through a tutorial of a dungeon they can just queue up for and just ask people what they need to do, like it is now with those who don't watch videos.

In reference to boldface:

• It seems that everyone says they'll watch a video if they know not watching one will hinder the ability to progress. I'm sure doing something in game first hand that wouldn't take forever would be an ample if not preferred choice, especially if it relatively achieves a similar goal.
  
• Many people do enjoy learning from 1st hand experience. Some people do not retain information very well when watching an instructional video. They are not "visual learners" so to speak. "Hands on" is preferred by many people.
  
• That's really the crux of it isn't it? People just freely show up to some random or partially random PUG group and say, "Hey I'm new. Anything I should know?". While my husband and I will always be the ones welcoming those people invitingly by saying, "Hey hey! Fresh meat lol. J/K, here's the breakdown......" I cannot say we are exactly enthusiastic about doing it. We do it out of courtesy to other players because we respect them as a collective.

Let's look at the simple proposed solution again:

• Implement a tab similar to the join in progress tab that would say "single player training".
  
• The player could go into any encounter they like with infinite health and a significant damage modifier.
  
• There would be absolutely no reward from doing this outside of maybe a couple mildly significant achievements.

I mean...that's it. And when I say infinite health I mean like a permanent "Holmgang" effect in a way. That way you can see the severity of certain attacks by your decrease in HP.

When I say a "significant damage modifier" I mean it. I mean like doing Wanderer's Palace in about 5 minutes. It would let you see what's going on and why. If you wanted to slow down and see what you need to do more in depth, you could slow down and take your time. That way the control is in your hands. Of course you would be able to leave the dungeon without a penalty too.

I know I said this earlier but I'll say it again. There seems to be a serious discontent for people who have not watched a video. I can't tell you how many times someone threatens AFK or just flat out leaves after one wipe. People seem to take the time to insult new players, but not many take the time to explain the mechanics in depth.

This attitude from what may or may not be a rising demographic in the community turns people off. I remember one time my husband was doing something around the house and I had a brand new tank in Aurum Vale. A healer and dps quit in the first room. I asked my husband to come in as a dps and help him out because he kept saying, "Please man, this is my first time." He had to keep saying that from all the trolling.

He comes in on his Bard, marks everything, explains every pull, even pulls most of the first room to show him. Before you knew it, that tank was tanking everything like a damn CHAMP. It was beautiful. He thanked us profusely afterwards. It's a crucial dungeon when getting to 50 ya know?

I think we all know though, there are A LOT of players who are not as patient. Heck, they could even make it mandatory for every new dungeon before you go live. The only requirement could be: Go in for 2 minutes....that's it. At least that way, you know the new person at least knew the beginning while you explained the first boss while killing trash mobs.

Technically, the guildhests are tutorials since they teach the players various mechanics they could face and the final one is a full party instance that teaches the tanks to split up and get all the mobs.


The only reason everyone is in the "video or GTFO" mindset is they already learned how to do the content and don't want to be held back by people who are new since it would put a damper on efficient farming. Speed runs also don't help this matter.

I agree with that, but it doesn't explain something like the bombs in Ultima HM. Only a person, a video, or getting lucky going in blind will do that.

[Ladyaceous]

I think its a great idea. I still havent gotten my titan ex clear. Ive watched the videos countless times but Id rather practice. That said, for your idea to work, it would have to follow the mechanics. So for me, i would still need a tank for positioning. I couldnt practice as bard without one.

That's why I suggested having infinite health. I added a "Holmgang" type of effect in a later post lol. I was thinking the exact same thing when I thought of this xD!

And thank you so much

[RyuDragnier]

Change this tutorial dungeon to one that teaches players how to actually play, and it'll be perfect IMO. Because seriously, DPS not using DoTs/combos/positionals, tanks not popping cooldowns/managing hatred properly, and healers just spamming their attack moves/spamming Adlo or Cure 2? THOSE are the people who need to be trained by tutorial places.

[Ladyaceous]

Change this tutorial dungeon to one that teaches players how to actually play, and it'll be perfect IMO. Because seriously, DPS not using DoTs/combos/positionals, tanks not popping cooldowns/managing hatred properly, and healers just spamming their attack moves/spamming Adlo or Cure 2? THOSE are the people who need to be trained by tutorial places.

Tyvm I think so too ^^

But man, what are ya really gonna do lol? Will this teach people to play? Hardly. Like Miles said there's already guildheists. I say "tutorial" but I guess I mean "mode". I thought that this would be something EXTREMELY easy for Square Enix to implement. Hardly any coding for such a huge benefit would surely be beneficial.

The need to watch a video or have someone explain something, in detail, maybe a few times is something that should really be addressed by now. This would be an easy fix. I don't see what in the world it would hurt either ya know?

[MXMoondoggie]

I think something like practicing the dungeon with infinite health destroys the point of everything tbh. Sure there is only so much you can learn by watching videos but completely taking out the challenge of learning all the mechanics and how to deal with them with the threat of a wipe is the whole point of running dungeons in MMO's. You go through the stress of defeat and it makes victory all that sweeter. Take that away and you just cater to the shallow "i want to beat everything right now" crowd. Challenge is a good thing you need to set goals for yourself and work on them not faceroll everything with nothing in your way.

I think guildhests and stuff already serve as a tutorial but people just zergstomp them without really understanding the mechanics so maybe some single player tutorials could work not for actual content because that would be stupid but just a tutorial that teaches you about your class and how to use it in a group because there are people who struggle to learn what all their skills do and how to use them effectively with others (Bards especially struggle i mean how many times did you hear "But you never told me to play any songs" on a run? How many times did you get a raise but no follow up heals and protect reapplied?). If would benefit everyone for people to get used to their class and avoiding boss mechanics without others to carry them. That doesn't mean they should expect the game to carry them by handing them everything though.

[Ladyaceous]

I think something like practicing the dungeon with infinite health destroys the point of everything tbh. Sure there is only so much you can learn by watching videos but completely taking out the challenge of learning all the mechanics and how to deal with them with the threat of a wipe is the whole point of running dungeons in MMO's. You go through the stress of defeat and it makes victory all that sweeter. Take that away and you just cater to the shallow "i want to beat everything right now" crowd. Challenge is a good thing you need to set goals for yourself and work on them not faceroll everything with nothing in your way.

I think guildhests and stuff already serve as a tutorial but people just zergstomp them without really understanding the mechanics so maybe some single player tutorials could work not for actual content because that would be stupid but just a tutorial that teaches you about your class and how to use it in a group because there are people who struggle to learn what all their skills do and how to use them effectively with others (Bards especially struggle i mean how many times did you hear "But you never told me to play any songs" on a run? How many times did you get a raise but no follow up heals and protect reapplied?). If would benefit everyone for people to get used to their class and avoiding boss mechanics without others to carry them. That doesn't mean they should expect the game to carry them by handing them everything though.

Tyvm for the feedback I'll address what's in bold:

That's exactly the point. There would be no challenge, only education. I mentioned a couple times that there would be no reward. The point isn't to gain something tangible, but to acquire knowledge you can use to gain said tangible items.

Again, that's the intended purpose. Never been to Hullbreaker? Go in "single player mode" faceroll your way to the last boss so you can experiment hoping around the islands before you eventually go, "Ahhhh....I get it".

Miles already brought up guildheists, and we all know doing guildheists do nothing for mechanics not explained in them like, again, something to the effect of the bombs in Ultima HM.

I agree. But this alternative would hand them virtually nothing but knowledge in return.

......................

Thank you for the feed back...lmao....Moondoggie However, there is only one point to the proposed idea:

Give us an alternative in-game for the obvious need to watch a video from an outside source. The mechanics demand that you either read up, have them explained to you, get lucky on a carry, or form a learning party.