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  1. #11
    Player
    FJerome's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
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    1,010
    Character
    Edhe'li Merwyn
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Weaver Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Chewy2nd View Post
    There is Dukes, Prince Phillip himself is the Duke of Edinburgh, Prince Andrew is the Duke of York, Prince Richard is the Duke of Gloucester, and Prince Edward is the Duke of Kent. The next in line, Prince Charles is the Duke of both Cornwall and Rothesay, Queen Elizabeth II herself is the Duke of Lancaster. Though to be fair, I only know about the Princes having second titles due to being British myself, lol.
    We've got non-royal Dukes, too, the Duke of Bedford and such, but I think Shadygrove typoed and meant "Count". We have Earls instead of Counts in the English/Scottish/British peerage systems, though confusingly we do have Countesses.* (Ask me about suo jure Countesses, if you dare.)

    As for Dzemael, he mentions that the Count existed several generations ago, which may be the solution to this - it could have been the highest title Dzemael held at the time and they've since been elevated to a Dukedom. That's not completely unusual in a peerage system, most of them feature some form of power-creep. Dukedoms did use to be only for members of the royal family here and the rank of Marquess took a couple of centuries to evolve after some of the Earls became Marcher Lords.
    (2)
    Last edited by FJerome; 02-05-2015 at 08:27 AM.

  2. #12
    Player
    Shorty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    121
    Character
    Shorty Orca
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 80
    What strikes me as interesting though, is how throughout the Ishgard quests/levequests, we've heard mention of duke, count, then archbishop... but no mention at all of a king/queen (or any other royal family), even in battle etc. Would indeed be interesting if it's a monarchy system without a king XD
    (0)

  3. #13
    Player
    Anonymoose's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    4,676
    Character
    Anony Moose
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by FJerome View Post
    As for Dzemael, he mentions that the Count existed several generations ago, which may be the solution to this - it could have been the highest title Dzemael held at the time and they've since been elevated to a Dukedom.
    Interestingly, both the previous Count Dzemael and current Count Dzemael are referred to by various NPCs. In fact, the guard I quoted, whose father had the same name and also served the count? His son, same name again, currently works as a Culinarian at Costa del Sol and says:
    <sigh> Sometimes I question if opening the Flying Shark was the right decision. But if I wasn't bowing and scraping to some pretentious Ul'dahn mechant, I reckon I'd be doing the same to Count Dzemael. That may have suited my father and grandfather, but I've aspirations for a better life.
    What gets me is the lower-case instance; those sworn of House Dzemael have sworn to "protect the count's lands."
    (0)

  4. #14
    Player
    FJerome's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
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    Edhe'li Merwyn
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Weaver Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty View Post
    Would indeed be interesting if it's a monarchy system without a king XD
    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymoose View Post
    Interestingly, both the previous Count Dzemael and current Count Dzemael are referred to by various NPCs.
    Hrm, in which case maybe they're counts because the duke is THE Duke? Sovereign Dukes are the lowest tier of European monarch, though the only one left is Luxembourg.

    Of course the Archbishop holds true power now but maybe the Duke remains as a figurehead given how much Ishgard hates change.
    (0)

  5. #15
    Player
    Anonymoose's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    4,676
    Character
    Anony Moose
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by FJerome View Post
    Of course the Archbishop holds true power now but maybe the Duke remains as a figurehead given how much Ishgard hates change.
    This got me thinking about Occam's Razor, so I looked up the flavor-text for the same leve in the other languages. None of them mention the Duke but English, all of them are different. This got me thinking, "What if it's just a small oversight because 1.0?" But then I took another browse through Wikipedia.

    No longer relevant

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    The highest precedence in the [France], attached to a feudal territory, was given to the twelve original pairies <...> Half of them were Dukes and half of them Counts.
    The Elezen are based on French backgrounds, so ... perhaps this is a throwback to Haldrath's knights?

    I recall hearing something about Thordan's twelve knights...

    Quote Originally Posted by Koji Fox
    Twelve Knights... of something? ... Something? Something round?
    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki Yoshida
    Something. Someth-SHHHH.
    Moreover...

    The Pope, as a temporal sovereign, has also, though rarely, granted the title of Duke or Duchess to persons for services to the Holy See.
    This opens up two new possibilities. [A] Perhaps the High Houses are from among a half of original peerage lines given the title of Count, being more military leaders and protectors of the realm than of ecclesiastic importance. Given that Ishgard is Halone > Everything, perhaps those descended from a half given the title of Duke are still unseen behind the walls, closer to the Archbishop than the Dravanian battles. Or, [B] perhaps dukes are just appointed every now and again when someone does something great for the Holy See. (Perhaps both?)

    Gonna dig deeper into the French connections... I think answers might be there somewhere.
    (0)
    Last edited by Anonymoose; 02-05-2015 at 11:52 AM.

  6. #16
    Dev Team Corvinoobus's Avatar
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    Sep 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymoose View Post

    And the Duke for good measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Dream a Little Bream (1.0)
    As he does once every moon, Ishgardian noble Duke Brett V will soon be arriving in Limsa Lominsa to conduct a routine inspection of the many export and import warehouses he maintains in the thalassocracy.
    Also, Inspector Briardien is rumoured to be a baron, and Ishgard's See contains at least an Archbishop, Bishops, and Cardinals.
    Before this speculation continues further, I must share with you certain developments regarding the man once known as "Duke Brett V."

    The structure of Ishgardian nobility is not widely known, especially in lands so distant as Limsa Lominsa. Moreover, given the nature of Lominsan society, even well-to-do merchants may know little of such things. So it was that a lowborn Ishgardian, who through a series of events fortuitous and fantastic had built a profitable import and export concern, affected the trappings of nobility and convinced his peers in Limsa Lominsa that he was the esteemed "Duke Brett V."

    Why he felt the need to adopt such a guise is anyone's guess, as his numerous eccentricities were met with widespread bemusement. Indeed, it was his penchant for ordering the same unusual dish every moon at the Bismarck that proved his undoing, as during one such visit he was confronted by traveling scholar, who declared with authority, "There's no such thing as an Ishgardian duke!"

    The "Duke" has since grown rather reclusive, as one might expect, and his tale is now largely forgotten. Yet on occasion, in certain corners of Limsa Lominsa, in response to a dubious claim, some locals are heard to exclaim, "Hah! And I'm an Ishgardian duke!"
    (53)

  7. #17
    Player
    Anonymoose's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    4,676
    Character
    Anony Moose
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 80
    The one time I don't call it a day after thinking "maybe it's just because 1.0," it actually was because 1.0. (Darksteel) FOILED AGAIN!

    Thanks very much for the update, Corvinoobus, and skillful clean-up on behalf of the team, as always, lol.



    </adds "...and I'm an Ishgardian duke!" to his vernacular>
    (13)
    Last edited by Anonymoose; 02-05-2015 at 01:06 PM.

  8. #18
    Player
    Dynza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    99
    Character
    Sahja Jinjahl
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 58
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvinoobus View Post
    Before this speculation continues further, I must share with you certain developments regarding the man once known as "Duke Brett V."

    The structure of Ishgardian nobility is not widely known, especially in lands so distant as Limsa Lominsa. Moreover, given the nature of Lominsan society, even well-to-do merchants may know little of such things. So it was that a lowborn Ishgardian, who through a series of events fortuitous and fantastic had built a profitable import and export concern, affected the trappings of nobility and convinced his peers in Limsa Lominsa that he was the esteemed "Duke Brett V."

    Why he felt the need to adopt such a guise is anyone's guess, as his numerous eccentricities were met with widespread bemusement. Indeed, it was his penchant for ordering the same unusual dish every moon at the Bismarck that proved his undoing, as during one such visit he was confronted by traveling scholar, who declared with authority, "There's no such thing as an Ishgardian duke!"

    The "Duke" has since grown rather reclusive, as one might expect, and his tale is now largely forgotten. Yet on occasion, in certain corners of Limsa Lominsa, in response to a dubious claim, some locals are heard to exclaim, "Hah! And I'm an Ishgardian duke!"
    Ah! But what of Archdukes hm?! Got you there!

    And Earls?
    And Magistrates?
    And Executive Producers?
    (0)

  9. #19
    Player
    WyrahFhurrst's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    495
    Character
    Galyn Dotharl
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Dynza View Post
    Ah! But what of Archdukes hm?! Got you there!

    And Earls?
    And Magistrates?
    And Executive Producers?
    Wait, what was that last one?
    (3)

  10. #20
    Player
    Narctiss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    72
    Character
    Narctiss Telraki
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvinoobus View Post
    Snip
    This reminds me a fair bit of Timothy Dexter, the man who came from practically nothing, and had no true sense of business, just luck, a will to become a lord and call himself such, and a lot of eccentricity.
    Was the story of Duke Brett V perhaps inspired by this?
    (0)

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