SMN redesign in expansion?

[Starkbeaumont]

while you could probably just switch out egis for some undead minions and call the class necromancers, i have yet to see a solid suggestion how to re-design the job to feel more "SMN-like" while still being balanced/fitting the current gameplay

[Zedd702]

while you could probably just switch out egis for some undead minions and call the class necromancers, i have yet to see a solid suggestion how to re-design the job to feel more "SMN-like" while still being balanced/fitting the current gameplay

TBH a couple of posts back, I posted a suggestion to change, though not solid per se, that would make them feel different in terms of unique play. More so on the cosmetic with a slight increase in DPS to select skills, but it's a change I'd be happy with.

[Temjiu]

You know, out of all the classes the summoner (and arcanist) confused me the most. The story-line is about using the mind in an analytic fashion...but the arcanist puts up disease and affliction (sounds more like a dark sorcerer or a necromancer to me). and post 30 were supposed to be a summoner, but as stated previously, were really a pet class based or...uh...dark sorceror or necromancer

I think the idea is interesting. However...I wonder if the Dev team is going to be willing to put in the time it takes to balance a rework of the class of this magnitude. Even though the name doesn't completely match the function of the class, the class as a whole isn't a bad design, only not implemented very well, from a skill perspective, as well as a gear support perspective.

many thoughts about the easiest way to change this have been in other emails. removing speed as a stat from gear, supplanting it with other more beneficial stats, changing how Aetherflow works, etc. smaller scope changed that would be easier then a full rework (which is what the OP's idea entails), and would make the class viable without changing it's overall function.

A Name change would also help in my opinion, rework them to be called an elementalist or the DS/Nec above. the class works fine, it just needs a bit of tweaking.

[Natsuno]

TBH a couple of posts back, I posted a suggestion to change, though not solid per se, that would make them feel different in terms of unique play. More so on the cosmetic with a slight increase in DPS to select skills, but it's a change I'd be happy with.

So just a cosmetic change with maybe some altered very slightly in one way or another? I can't see them uncoupling Summoner from Arcanist, so the new spells could overwrite the current spells while leveling, like the Egis overwrite the Carbuncles. One or two spell changes per 5 levels should be OK (I'm thinking job quests rewards) so as not to confuse anyone by changing them all at once upon unlocking the job. (hands off shadowflare though ;p) Actually, SF can go. Having last seen SF when I played FFVII way back when, I found the current itteration underwhelming. Would not mind if current SF got reworked while getting another targettable ground AoE to replace its current purpose.


Responding to some others, I don't like the idea of aether channeling, but expanding upon aetherflow/stacks usage could be a way to go.

I'm uncertain about ideas to lump most of our damage into the egis. They're way too fragile as it is with the way fight mechanics are going. Having it die due to people getting too close to it so it dies to mechanics (I'm looking at you, cactuars) is gonna hurt dps even more than it does currently. I think it'd require some survivability buffs, and then it's likely to be OP then. So if anything, I'd prefer defensive over offensive buffs for the egis.

I'm all up for shiva/levi/ramuh-egis being used as temporary summons that we could use on top of our permanent egis to do some damage (ST or AoE), provide a buff, /manderville at the back of the raid... whatever. Resoures used & numbers can be tuned (read: they'll hit like a wet noodle, but hey, atleast you'll look the part). Having never played DAoC, I cant really comment. I had in mind something more WoW warlock Doomguard/Infernal, but I'm open to the idea.

As far as complete overhauls or a renaming the job goes... I really don't think it's gonna happen.

Edit: I forgot to mention I am completely fine with the job as it currently is, bar any minor gripes.

[Temjiu]

I'm just giving a suggestion that MIGHT work:

1. Re-name Summoner to High Arcanist or something like that
2. Remove Summon III, replace with some sort of mp-regenating skill,
3. or if High Arcanist's piety to mp ratio/piety is increased for higher income of mp via Aether flow then replace Summon III with a damage cool down or a contagion-like skill (so we have Emerald Carbuncle's Contagion-like skill and our own Contagion-like skill = less mp spent on DoTs)
4. Make a completely new job (one of those neat no-class ones) to be Summoner so that people who want to play as Summoner and not a Dot+pet class can do so.

Just some possibilities(without alterin current summoner/High Arcanist, as I named it here cause no better name for now, too much) to make both parties happy: the ones that like current summoner(me, but kinda forced to roll monk for now in FcoB progression) and the ones that don't like the current summoner and want more "summoner-y" as said many times.

In spite of my previous statement, These are not bad ideas, and they could allow for a real "summoner" style job without affecting the current job/class. The ONLY downside is that this would entail a whole new job, which is much farther in the future then the next expansion. They already have 3 new jobs/classes in the expansion, so i don't see this in the future.

Not to mention that the summoner is already the only class that has 2 jobs available, which puts many of the other classes behind the ball in terms of overall job balance. I would honestly prefer to see a new job for the other classes over the summoner getting a 3rd one. I'm eagerly awaiting a second job for my marauder, as an example, that allows me to whip around my huge axe in a DPS role. or another job for my pugilist, like a battle cleric (healer that uses melee combat to heal). stuff like that. other classes need the luv too

[patseguin]

I haven't tried any other jobs yet and I'm not 50, but at 41 I find SMN really fun to play so far and damage seems good. Do other jobs get much better improvements to the base class or something?

[Alistaire]

I haven't tried any other jobs yet and I'm not 50, but at 41 I find SMN really fun to play so far and damage seems good. Do other jobs get much better improvements to the base class or something?

Not really. These threads are all complaints from people who want a job that's more centered around pets than the player and this game just simply won't support that. SMN runs into MP problems in final coil, but first 9 turns they're great, and for several of those turns they're very close to being considered indispensable.

[Akiza]

SE could rework the Summoner into a job based around Elementalist and Summoning spells.

[mvenom]

Or u switch game if you dont like it, this isnt FF11.

[AniCelestine]

Not to mention that the summoner is already the only class that has 2 jobs available, which puts many of the other classes behind the ball in terms of overall job balance)

It having 2 jobs branch out of same class makes balancing smn dps with other dps classes harder, without buffing sch's dps, so in a way, I'd rather have smn and sch on seperate classes. And I meant the "real summoner" job to be it's own job, so it wouldn't be a 3rd job for arcanist. And yes, I know there's already 3 jobs coming in 3.0, so it wouldn't come then, but SE might give us one class at 3.4 as they did with Ninja, or somewhere along the way between 3.0 and 4.0(I'm assuming people can still play XIV ARR without buying expansion pack when they come, so they'd have to have some way of keeping those people entertained too, who don't buy expansions, thus adding "free new jobs" along the way for example.)

SE could rework the Summoner into a job based around Elementalist and Summoning spells.

Or they could leave it as it is and create a new job that is seperate from arcanist so the people who love summoner as it is now doens't get walked over by people who wants something out of a class it is currently not. Also, earlier I read a good reply:

Summoner always differ between each Final Fantasy they appear in (White Mages with summons, Black Mages with summons, remove the party for remote control of the Summon, heavy nuker with nearly nothing else). This is just a different take on the job and if you don't like it, feel free to change job.

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Removing summon 3 would be huge nerf for us. Ifrit can do lot more damage than garuda. Even unlimited mp can not compensate that damage what ifrit can do over garuda.

How much ifrit doing "alot more damage" than garuda help you, when you're all out of mana and nerfing yourself with Energy Drain spam?

Also, they could add another nuke skill inplace of Summon III, i.e oGCD skill on 30 sec CD or Raging strikes equelevant, depending how they (SE) can make it balanced.
Hell, add a new DoT even, inplace of Summon III (doesn't count towards Fester dmg, so fester still max potency 300) and replace Tri-Disaster with Contagion-equilevant. (High Arcanist too OP now eh?)

Also, the other reason I'd rather see the 2nd dmg pet gone, is because neither is clearly meant for either AoE or Singletarget, (both has single target and aoe attacks) so there's no real reason to use either over the other at this moment, so might aswell replace that un-used skill with something that could be useful (same with Tri-Disaster)