o.O Overkill on the crafting Dumb down?

[TheVedis]

This is where I have a fundamental difference of opinion with you again. I do not feel that a healthy server economy of 400 to 500 players can be supported by only 4 equipment crafters posting only 4 pieces of equipment each. That feels more like a crafting cartel than a crafting free-market. I see the logical point you are trying to make, but I don't agree with your numbers. And since your conclusions are based on those numbers, I have to disagree with them too ... even though your logic may be sound.

there is well over 400-500 players int he economy

the problem is, most crafters dont make gear, period, they leveled them to do repairs, and thats it

add in to the fact that 4 crafters, who can mass produce items dont wanna do it cuz the items wont sell too too fast, it isnt about there not being enough crafters, you are obviously still missing the point of whats going on

[Ferth]

You guys need to stop debating while I'm at work!

So, to go back to Sorel's speculation on what the Bronze Labrys will turn into... I think it would be great if that's what it was. Your example still has some tier 3 refinements.

Given the example we have with hempen doublets I expect it to be something more like 2 Bronze ingots, one ash lumber, one sheep leather/dodo leather, assuming they are trying to keep the parts in the same range as the finished item.

I think it was oscillate_wildly several pages back who commented that the example of the change is an extremely lazy fix. On the one hand, the crafting system is admittedly a huge mess, and it certainly would be easier to over simplify everything rather than to go through each individual item and fix things where they need to be fixed. Even if they intend to go back later and build the complexity up again, that leaves us with a period of time where crafting is even less engaging than it already is.

I am eagerly waiting or an official translation of Yoshi's vision for crafting, I love Reinhart's work but even he admits that his English is a bit rough, and it's difficult to glean the full meaning of the post.

I guess to sum up, I'd rather see them give crafting the complete overhaul it needs and I'd rather wait with what we have than have them cobble together some placeholder system.

I would like to see the parts be made into a more cohesive system, not scrapped entirely... even if it is just for the earlier stages of crafting... Though really, that's the moot point right there, because on all fronts what this game needs is a slower progression rate from 1-10. And really, from 1-20. It won't matter what they do for the rank 1-10 crafts because most people will just do 2-3 crafting leves and be at rank 9-10 and bypass all those recipes anyway.

But that is a debate for another thread.

[Mikita]

Yoshi P posted a whole bunch of comments in the Japanese thread last night.

Here is a link to his first post:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...039#post307039

I am a terrible translator, so I don't want to post anything that misrepresents what he said, and will leave that job to others.


Hm. I don't see that he said anything about removal of parts from the synthesis process, which is probably the biggest issue here on the English thread.

But I'm especially excited about:
- new recipes and high rank recipes
- post-1.20 possible changes to HQ synthesis -- Going through the pains of gathering all HQ materials should ensure an HQ finished product... but there are no specifics on +1, +2, +3 etc.

He talks a lot about Materia, but I'm totally clueless about what Materia is or how it works so all of that is completely lost on me. ><

[Blue79]

wow 794 comments!

some say nerf, some say fix... i'm sticking with nerf

SE drone: hey guys the markets never have many parts for sale!
Player base: the market system doesn't work and inventories are constantly maxed out
SE drone: hmmm guess no one is making them, lets just take it away. deleting is easier than fixing anyway
Player base: srlsy??? when every other mmo has storage, bags, mail system... you decided just to get rid of items? ...FML


obviously if there are nearly 800 comments, fighting about the few hints they dropped... maaaaaaybe they should double check their plan to make sure it's the best for the game and not just the easiest to do

[Pyrix]

FIX. Don't nerf the fucking system. STREAMLINE IT.

[Bayohne]

I know you guys have seen the mountain of posts that Yoshida made in the wee hours of the morning in Japan. We've been working to get all that translated for you guys, and we really appreciate your patience. There will be more translations to come tomorrow.

I have to add the disclaimer that this is content under development, so please treat it as such and know that certain terms may not be finalized.

Hello, this is Yoshida, the producer/director.

I will discuss the direction of scheduled revamps for synthesis recipes (with examples), recipe additions, and HQ synthesis in Patch 1.19. This will be long.

Below are the recipes for Rank 50 items that will be added in the new patch.
(Cobalt and Red Colorant are new ingredients/items so their properties may change.)

-----------------------------
■Cobalt Sabatons (Armorer Recipe)
-----------------------------
(Equipment Level: 49)　*High-Level Feet Gear (For Tanking)

Cobalt Sabatons
├　△Cobalt Plate　×3
├　▲Cobalt Rings　×1
├　□Boar Leather　×1
└　■Electrum Ingot　×1

Consumed Catalysts
Earth Crystal　×2
Ice Shard　×3

Recipes for Ingredients
△Cobalt Plate (Armorer Recipe)
└　○Cobalt Ingot　×2

○Cobalt Ingot (Armorer Recipe)
├　Specular Iron Ore　×2
└　Iron Ore　×2

▲Cobalt Rings (Armorer Recipe)
├　Specular Iron Ore　×2
└　Iron Ore　×2

□Boar Leather (Tanner Recipe)
├　Boar Hide　×1
└　Alumen　×1

■Electrum Ingot (Goldsmith Recipe)
└　Electrum Ore　×4

---------------------------------
■Cobalt Sabatons[RD] (Armorer Recipe)
---------------------------------
(Equipment Level: 49)　*High-Level Feet Gear (For Tanking)

Cobalt Sabatons [RD]
├　Cobalt Sabaton x1
├　Red Colorant　×1
└　Cobalt Plate　×1

Consumed Catalysts
Earth Crystal x3

• Direction of Recipe Revamp in Patch 1.19

Some may say that this revamp may be an oversimplification compared to previous recipes, but considering consumption of gear due to the implementation of materia and trial and error of materia gear, we think that this is appropriate for now. A complete set of protective gear is 6 pieces, so wishing to equip a full set of gear will incur 6 times the cost. If it becomes any more complicated, it will take too long to complete an item, so there will be an imbalance in items due to a lack of supply. Regarding the battle revamp, even the slightest change in the parameters will yield a significant impact, so meticulous players will have to calculate their gear’s base stats + materia in detail. Therefore, a wider variety of items will be necessary to maintain balance by placing appropriate gear with appropriate materia in the right places, so there will be added responsibilities for crafters.

• Addition of End Recipes after Patch 1.20

Setting Patch 1.19 as the “foundation” with simple recipes for basic crafters, we plan on adding on to the foundation with higher level End Recipes. (This will be adjusted based on the implementation of materia craft) Battle content will be further expanded, so dropped items will become stronger as well. As a result, if crafted items do not become stronger, crafted items will effectively die out. Therefore, we will add crafted items with very strong parameters in exchange for higher requirements such as multiple skills, rare ingredients, and multiple crafted ingredients. Gathering ingredients for these items will require help from another player and/or leveling up multiple classes. Essentially, crafting will be sharpened. To be successful, crafters will have to consistently pursue the newest recipes from patches, review where to obtain ingredients, observe market trends, and create items.

• HQ Synthesis Revamp Planned for after Patch 1.20

We are planning a revamp for HQ item synthesis from Patch 1.20 on. Currently, there are multiple qualities of HQ items, which can get confusing. To fix this issue, we plan on separating these items into normal quality (NQ) and high quality (HQ). NQ and HQ items will have clear differences in quality. Also, the synthesis process for HQ items will be changed as follows:

HQ Cobalt Sabatons
├　HQ Cobalt Plate　×　3
├　HQ Cobalt Rings　×　1
├　HQ Boar Leather　×　1
└　HQ Electrum Ingot　×　1

Basically, in order to synthesize an HQ final item, HQ versions of every ingredient must be used. Players are guaranteed to synthesize HQ items if all the ingredients used are HQ. However, it will be very difficult to obtain HQ versions of all ingredients.

In addition, there will be higher level synthesis recipes that use “Cobalt Sabatons” as an ingredient. In this case, if “Cobalt Sabatons HQ” is used as an ingredient along with other HQ ingredients, an even higher level HQ item can be crafted. We believe that this system is easy to understand and will provide a nice challenge. Also, there will be synthesis recipes that require both “items that are obtained through drops only” and “items that are obtained through gathering only” which will clearly have a higher demand. This will establish a healthy relationship between fighters, gatherers, and crafters, in which the three must properly allocate roles to collect the items necessary for synthesis.

• Future Developments

The removal of physical levels will have an impact on crafters and gatherers. The way that current parameters are set, each crafter/gatherer skill is affected forcefully, so we understand that some effects are not quite perceived by the player. We plan on sharpening this from Rank 50 on with the implementation of ingredients that can only be gathered by miners with STR 100+, ingredients that can only be gathered by miners with VIT 125+, armor that can only be created by armorers with DEX 115+, etc. (This is a follow-up implementation, so we will consider parameter adjustments) Even without parameter adjustments, by choosing equipped items, requirements can be met. Therefore, there will be items that can be created or ingredients that can be obtained through choosing the proper gear for crafters and gatherers. Different options and fragmentation will be possible within the same class. Of course implementing specialized classes would be another option. Within this update, the flows of synthesis and gathering will be changed. (I will ask for your opinions about this at a later time)

This has carried on very long, but this concludes my outline on the direction of revamps in patch 1.19 and beyond.

[Ashgarth]

Basically, in order to synthesize an HQ final item, HQ versions of every ingredient must be used. Players are guaranteed to synthesize HQ items if all the ingredients used are HQ. However, it will be very difficult to obtain HQ versions of all ingredients.

I'm officially in love with this patch.

[Bayohne]

Here is another post that Yoshida made this morning this time on the topic of item storage and low~mid-level gear.

I wanted to post in regards to item capacities and low~mid-level gear.

I receive a lot of suggestions to increase inventory space or make inventory unlimited, but it is impossible to possess every single item (which is increasing constantly through updates) on a single character. Please understand that this is physically impossible, because there is a cost related limit to server storage (the location where everybody’s character data is stored). In order to increase stored data, (tens of thousands of characters x numbers of items x bytes of each item) there is no other option but to increase hard drive size. Basically, charging fees for additional storage options exists to combat this issue.

Even for stand-alone package games, the size of the save data is greatly affected by the number of items, so the numbers of items and the size of each item are determined by available server space.

Therefore, if all recipes require a large number of ingredients, available server space will become lacking, and desired items will not be able to be synthesized because the players cannot keep a hold of the ingredients.

Also, low level gear can be dumped in the marketplace based on the crafter’s leveling progress. It is very uncommon for high level crafters to create low level gear unless they receive a specific request. Considering the development flow of each class, early and middle stages will be completed relatively quickly, so gear for early and middle stages will be very short lived. It makes no sense to pay a lot for short lived gear, so these items will be sold at very low prices, which results in even less reason for high-level crafters to create these items.

Obviously, players will be more motivated if their gear changes frequently through the early and middle stages of the game. As such, dropped items and store bought items should be utilized in combination to support this approach. Conversely, if gear cannot be obtained and the player is using weak gear that does not match up with the player’s level, the player will lose motivation. The player can choose to create their own gear, but if the recipes are extremely complicated, the player will end up giving up.

This is embarrassing, but I believe this was the case with FFXIV up until now, so we would like to work on making the game more and more difficult and complex as you progress. (I’m sorry that this is so blatantly obvious.)

As far as I can see, it seems that “All-purpose red dye” is the coloring element. Is this why colors are the key to customizing item stats? (In this case red is for shields)

Stats are to be customized by dye, ingredients, and crystal element.

In order to allow items to be colored simply, all colors must be prepared for all items or an entire color changing system must be implemented, so we will work on this separately. (Preparing every color of every item is not possible in terms of memory, and the system method will take some time. Other games use methods such as adjusting the material color, but this will sacrifice the quality of the texture.)

Is the system of creating a separate tab for gear not being worked on? Is the current item threshold of 100 items the maximum possible?

I’m sorry this is taking a long time, but we are looking into combining the gear system with the Armoury and creating a new system, in which gear is separated by class and gear can be changed in bundles, from scratch.
Basically, currently equipped gear and Armoury gear will be removed from your list of items.
(The development team calls this the mannequin system)

Since this will take a long time, we are looking into ways that we can increase the item threshold in the meantime. Once this time table becomes clear, we’ll let you know.

[Orias]

I am happy with every one of those changes! When I had initially thought about all the crafting changes, I was unsure what to think about it. I thought it was overkill, as many of you here believed as well. At the same time, I had neglected to consider materia.

I think Yoshida is pushing crafting into a new, yet exciting direction.

[Ferth]

I still need to see more. We've seen two ends of the spectrum; the stupid easy low ranked gear (which I still think is the wrong fix.) and the complex high level recipe but what can we expect to see in the 25-35 range?

Also I am not sure how I feel about the new fix to HQ... I'm all for condensing HQ so we don't have three different tiers for it, but I am not sure how I feel about HQs requiring all HQ mats.