o.O Overkill on the crafting Dumb down?

[ZachCero]

As I was reading the dev post about the changes, I thought everything stated was insanely obvious. The current system is so counter-intuitive, I can't believe anyone put it in the game to begin with. Now they're proposing to fix that, and people are complaining. I really shouldn't be surprised after the same complaints about repair materials, but here we go again.

Firstly, can changes like this go overboard, and simplify the game to the point of absurdity? Absolutely. We should be very watchful of simplifications, because they can easily take the fun out of the game.

What we shouldn't do is automatically go into an uproar at the proposal of any simplification without regard to its merits. That's great if you enjoy hoarding hundreds of different materials and switching between 5 different classes to make each material to finally make the weapon you wanted.. but realize you're on the extreme end of the spectrum - it's a completely inaccessible system for someone who only wants to focus on one or two crafts, which is most players. And that's not personal bias; I'm leveling every craft save culinarian. But even with that, I can see how unnecessary crafting requirements currently are.

Players should have options. Simplifying recipes does nothing to limit your ability to choose to craft a million different items across as many classes as you want. The current system, on the other hand, severely limits a player's ability to craft the majority of the items in their discipline simply by the materials required to make them. Can you really not step back from your own play style for a minute and see that?

You should be rewarded for going beyond a particular crafting class to improve and diversify your skill set. It should not be require of you.

/speech

Best speech ever!!!!!!!


YoshiP Response - 08/19/11 Q/A concerns regarding new recipe

Original Thread Link: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/21432

[zzapp]

There's alot of good in this and alot of bad, and no, I'm not reading 51 pages of posts to see the consensus, but I imagine it's quite mixed.

The rank adjustment of materials is good. The color thing is good. I like the elimination of parts to some degree. I don't think I should have to make 4-5 items to make a finished good. I think once you reach a certain rank, support requirement or recommendation should no longer be needed, but to eliminate it altogether, I don't think is right. An adjustment to sub-crafts would have been better than elimination. I don't think to make a Jade Crook, my alchemist should have a required sub of R41. Lastly, nice, I spent 30K guild marks on all the books for the 5 major crafts I've leveled. That's 150K guild marks - now we don't need them? You gotta be kidding me. ><

Why is everything with SE such a yoyo reaction, instead of a moderated adjustment. Perfect example is MP usage. Let's adjust it from nothing to everything. Why?

[Geesus]

Except in the current system, there are things you can't get at all. I needed a new hammer. There were no hammer grips that I needed in the wards and the finished pieces I felt were overpriced. So I took up carpentry and started making them myself. In fact I sold some extra hammers for cheaper than the other guys and ended up making a little profit.

The current system doesn't work.

I was actually goining to say that, looks like the system DID work. SE got you to craft (picked up a job you didn't have) to do for yourself and then YOU added merch to the wards and you made gil. So other then the fact you didn't see what you wanted, how didn't it work lol? I'm not bashing but this doesn't seem to be a very good example of a system not working when you did what you needed to and gave back to a small community. You actually helped your fellow players and that's ALSO important as has been stated in this thread.

[Esk]

People who are complaining, please, please... read this:

YoshiP Response - 08/19/11 Q/A concerns regarding new recipe

It may not address all of your relevant concerns, but for now, can we avoid the "dumbing down" posts? Complexity will rise with rank. "High levels it will be high difficulty and have reality, craft specific item with high efficiency".

We'll i'd all but stopped posting now anyway as I feel my point was made to those who understood.

But what he seems to be saying in that reply actually doesn't go near my personal point about removing a chuck of the content and depth from the system and missing the chance to use the unused items for new gear, or the possible effect on DoL, but i will wait and see how much more comes out..
(Edit Actually it does kind of implay along with the more complex they might bump up the material cost as well at hi level so that will to a point help the DoL issue. so it only really leaves my main point)

But it will I think more satisfy those wanting a challenge in crafting so thats 1 good point for them.

@Ashaylin - I regret the choice of title now as it seems to have become a buzz word for the changes in some post, but it very poorly reflects what i was actually trying to say in my original post.

[Esk]

I was actually goining to say that, looks like the system DID work. SE got you to craft (picked up a job you didn't have) to do for yourself and then YOU added merch to the wards and you made gil. So other then the fact you didn't see what you wanted, how didn't it work lol? I'm not bashing but this doesn't seem to be a very good example of a system not working when you did what you needed to and gave back to a small community. You actually helped your fellow players and that's ALSO important as has been stated in this thread.

I actually thought the same, but felt mean posting and point it out...

[Geesus]

I actually thought the same, but felt mean posting and point it out...

Awww I wasn't being meannnn lol Just thought it ironic with you, myself and others yappin' away in here for more then 24 hours and they brought up 2 points we all were saying is an issue. They just happened to do it right. I didn't disagree just wanted to point it out.

[Kamaru]

I was actually goining to say that, looks like the system DID work. SE got you to craft (picked up a job you didn't have) to do for yourself and then YOU added merch to the wards and you made gil. So other then the fact you didn't see what you wanted, how didn't it work lol? I'm not bashing but this doesn't seem to be a very good example of a system not working when you did what you needed to and gave back to a small community. You actually helped your fellow players and that's ALSO important as has been stated in this thread.

Actually there has been lots of times that I have stopped leveling because I couldn't get a part. Maybe it would be possible if I wasn't sitting at a constant 290/300 inventory space but I have other things I want to do then spend an hour trading mules just so I can continue to craft.

Also this example only works on low level stuff. You really think he is going to pick up a craft and level it to 20+ so he can get part? Yeah.... We shouldn't have to level every craft if all we want to do is level 1.

[Esk]

Actually there has been lots of times that I have stopped leveling because I couldn't get a part. Maybe it would be possible if I wasn't sitting at a constant 290/300 inventory space but I have other things I want to do then spend an hour trading mules just so I can continue to craft.

The Lack of inventory space is a bi product of the to many items in game yes.
(But again something most people have said yes to reducing but not to this extent),
But it's not the fault of the crafting system itself, its a flaw in the amount of storage Vs in game items more so.

[Bayohne]

Yoshida had a chance to speak about the large discussion that has been revolving around the recently announced changes to crafting.

Hello this is Producer/Director Yoshida.

Since it seems all the recipes from 1~50 are going to be made easier, I thought it might be good to get some opinions from the professional crafters…

I imagine something like the below where the changes will benefit the new crafters and still retain a nice crafting life for the high ranks.

1~20 Recipe 　　Easier than the current situation
21~40 Recipe　 Same as the current situation
41~50 Recipe　 Resilient difficulty

Yes, this is the basic idea and I am sorry that I couldn’t explain the fundamental plan in a clearer manner. I will be making a specific post about this next Tuesday late at night, so please take the direction we are taking to mean that we will be adding even more recipes for high ranks which are quite high in difficulty, and will adhere somewhat to reality, yielding craft specific items with high stats. I apologize for the lack of details at the moment.

To put it simply, the road will become wider, but to reach the top, there will be trial-and-error, a degree of difficulty, and resilience required on the part of the crafter. Similar to the battle classes, we are aiming to have end-game style content for crafters and gatherers.

[Wynn]

Yoshida had a chance to speak about the large discussion that has been revolving around the recently announced changes to crafting.

This is great, Bayohne. It sounds awesome actually, but can we address the removal of parts? I mean, a lot of craft classes are going to get completely screwed by the blanket removal of those grind recipes. Just off the top of my head there is ARM, CRP, TAN, and WVR that are going to have a VERY hard time leveling now. How will this be addressed?