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  1. #71
    Player
    Craiger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    724
    Character
    Atiqa Craiger
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 60
    It sounds to me like everyone is making this into a bigger problem than it is...

    First off: DRG is the easiest job to play IMO... Maybe I'm alone on that, but when you really learn your rotation and priorities, then you can do a great deal of damage actually... and missing positional attacks shouldn't happen often. MNKs doesn't lose as much if they don't hit one, but they have a much harder and more active requirements for positions, often resulting in more positional misses, which evens it out...

    A good DRG can be relatively close to MNK/NIN dps actually, and please don't come with your huge difference in numbers again... People have gotten a lot closer than is being insinuated here.

    Add 10% extra dps from a BRD, and a DRG can compete with the dps of the others... Better than 10% more damage for 10 secs every now and then. Using all your buffs/pots for Trick Attack won't make a difference either, it's still only 10% more damage than you would do otherwise... Please learn math.

    They are a little short on dps, and they shouldn't rely on BRD that much, but just a small increase would be enough. The low magic resist have been annoying, but I haven't played my DRG that much lately, didn't they fix that? That should be changed otherwise...

    Lowering the CD on Jump and maybe some other small change would do it.
    (1)

  2. #72
    Player
    Remilia_Nightfall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    759
    Character
    Reimu Hakurei
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Craiger View Post

    Add 10% extra dps from a BRD, and a DRG can compete with the dps of the others... Better than 10% more damage for 10 secs every now and then. Using all your buffs/pots for Trick Attack won't make a difference either, it's still only 10% more damage than you would do otherwise... Please learn math.

    Too bad it's not a 10% damage buffs to bards, since Disembowel only applies to initial hits and not dots. It has been estimated that the actual damage buff is around 6-7%. Please learn math.

    Anyway, what I think would be best is to give DRG's job skills more flavor and utility. Allow jumps to have invincibility frames while off screen - this would allow the DRG to be able to compensate for its lower overall DPS with the ability to actually STAY on the boss more (if he's skilled enough to time jumps with enemy attacks), thus slightly increase its dps.

    I think it would be a rather interesting concept that would put DRG in the "constant melee DPS specialist", a bit like SMN is for ranged DPS. Jumping at the right time will require skill anyway, so I hardly believe it would be seriously exploited. Also it's dangerous, since if you fail you will most likely take lots of damage due to low MDEF.

    Just an idea.
    (5)
    Last edited by Remilia_Nightfall; 11-09-2014 at 07:56 PM.

  3. #73
    Player
    Sentinillia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    124
    Character
    Sentinillia Emilie
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Craiger View Post
    A good DRG can be relatively close to MNK/NIN dps actually
    No. Unless your MNK and NIN are awful at their jobs. Don't make me post parser logs that... ahem.. My party member gave me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart View Post
    Not sure if sarcasm... but i won't change my opinion either way, I've seen many dragoons who suck at what they do and then others who never loldrg and always get the final attack.

    will say, the job is more painful to play with keyboard and mouse unless you tap num5 to lock on.
    Your opinion is does not change the facts.


    Many people have suggested adding i-frames to jumps but it doesn't seem a very feasible option from my standpoint. Technically, this could add a whole new level of skill as you would be able to completely negate the need for dodging aoes with proper timing but this would also be incredibly broken for certain instances.
    (3)

  4. #74
    Player
    RinchanNau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    238
    Character
    Rinchan Nau
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 70
    Yea. I'm a BRD main. The difference is 6-7% like you mentioned. It's even likely lower than 6% on plenty of bosses when you consider boss jumps and adds.

    It takes a DRG 2 or 3 GCDs to get Disembowel up. 3 if HT has fallen off or it's the beginning of the fight. 2 if the stoppage was short or they're switching targets with plenty of time still left on their HT buff. I suppose it can also be as short as 1 GCD if they prep it by using ID on their previous target. Can be done but not always optimal for them.

    T10 - 2 add phases. I keep my dots on two or three of these adds at a time. Disembowel will only add 10% to the initial potency of one of those sets of dots. And not even the ticks. Add in the seconds to takes to apply Disembowel to any of these adds. Add in time where they can't keep up the buff if they are chosen for a charge. Or miss a positional due to the boss turning for a charge. Or having to stand in the way of a charge.

    T11 - potential downtime on Disembowel due to dodging pizza. Can only keep Disembowel up on one add. In a party with 1 caster the bard will want to dot one of the other adds too to make sure they are killed around the same time. Add in the final phase tethers to the other issues and you will see potentially even more Disembowel downtime.

    T12 - Potential Disembowel downtime on either the adds or the boss when adds are up. Downtime if they are chosen for certain mechanics. Like the blue marker. Downtime during phase 3 adds because of the time it can take to get Disembowel up and the running around a bit to get away from certain adds once they have been killed. More potential Disembowel downtime in final phase if they need to keep a tether from hitting other people and also if they are soaking the fire puddles. And after boss jumps. Happens after each rotation.

    T13 - potential Disembowel downtime while dealing with mega flare and other mechanics. Plenty of adds. Boss jumps. More downtime. Etc. Etc.

    Don't get me wrong. I do enjoy the Disembowel piercing debuff and all, but I'll take a MNK and/or NIN any day of the week for increased overall raid damage. Goad and Trick Attack keep me much happier than Disembowel. Receiving Goad 2x every raid boss has been amazing.

    Really hoping to see some changes to DRG in 3.0 as I really do enjoy the job.
    (8)

  5. #75
    Player
    Cyfer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    22
    Character
    Cyfer Wong
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Craiger View Post
    First off: DRG is the easiest job to play IMO... it.
    Really? Everyone have been telling me that MNK is way easier to use due to least punishment on missing positional , higher survivability and higher up time. ( I mainly raid as DRG, rarely use MNK)

    Quote Originally Posted by Craiger View Post
    A good DRG can be relatively close to MNK/NIN dps actually, and please don't come with your huge difference in numbers again... People have gotten a lot closer than is being insinuated here.

    Add 10% extra dps from a BRD, and a DRG can compete with the dps of the others...
    A good DRG will never ever come close to MNK dps (provided that they both perform equally well). Even with 10%(does not buff DoT) extra DPS from BRD we still fall behind from other melee.. I have no idea on NIN dps as I've never raid with a good NIN at the moment
    (0)

  6. #76
    Player Lithera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,225
    Character
    Randolont Althoreaux
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Koroem View Post
    Also the disembowel buff/debuff is now a joke with the release of Ninja. It really needs to be changed.
    You want them to change the FULL TIME piercing debuff to something else because NIN can buff everyone for 10s at a time? LOL What they COULD do is take it out of the CT combo so that the combo doesn't become semiredundant with 2 DRGS (Disembowel does not stack but CT does).
    (1)

  7. #77
    Player Lithera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,225
    Character
    Randolont Althoreaux
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Sentinillia View Post
    All of us that care about min/maxing and getting the most out of our jobs. Nothing is more satisfying than the feeling of perfectly executing every single move in an encounter, knowing you did the best you are capable of doing.



    BLM is one of the strongest DPS classes right now, rivaling that of MNK and NIN while still having massive aoe utility. Please go bait elsewhere.
    Even you minority min/maxers can't execute PERFECT combos in every encounter. There will always be mechanics that push you out of range or put you in positions where your positionals are impossible for a few seconds or more (Try managing Disembowel/CT against Kraken in Sastasha HM. You have to bounce to the tentacles to put it on Kraken). In combat right now I'm not witnessing that big a gap between me and the other melee DPS. I could give two shits what numbers against a dummy say.
    (1)

  8. #78
    Player Lithera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,225
    Character
    Randolont Althoreaux
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont View Post

    Also one simple thing that always annoyed me is that better Invigorate should mean better TP management, but in the end DRGs starve for TP as much as the other melee do in a long fight...
    Learn to manage TP...and lay off on the Skill Speed...lol...really though the reason Invigorate isn't more potent is because of our AoE capability. We can already spam RoT/Doom Spike constantly with Invigorate use longer than most other DPS can sustain AoE damage.
    (1)

  9. #79
    Player Lithera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,225
    Character
    Randolont Althoreaux
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Sleigh View Post
    Exactly. All the top end turn 12/13 clears, the best players in the world who are by and large running combinations of MNK and MNK/NIN, just have lazy/stupid DRGs. Makes sense.
    You mean the ONE T13 clear? FFS... Don't really want to read back through the first few pages but either this thread or one of the others had a DRG who cleared T10-11 and his group was close to T12. Again most of us could give two craps about min/maxers who want to steamroll all the content in a week...for the general raiding population there is no problem with DRG.
    (0)

  10. #80
    Player
    BigPapaSmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    322
    Character
    Piper Bell
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 50
    ^three.....
    (0)

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