Coil 5 changes needed

[CuragaCura]

Twintania - Turn 5. What is it?

Phase 1. 100-80% Ghost + Twintania. Neurolink drops. (Turn 1)
Phase 2. 79%-55% Conflag + Fireball mechanic. Healers need to be wary of Death Sentence. (Turn 2)
Phase 3. Big Snake + Small snakes + Divebombs. (Turn 4)
Phase 4. 54%-30% Twisters + Dread Knight (Turn 4)
Phase 5. 30%-0% Twintania Fight. (Turn 1)

Not going to go into specifics but I do believe each Turn before Turn 5 itself is meant to teach you something in particular. If you really think about it, Turn 5 is literally a compilation of the previous Turns molded together in order to challenge players to put all the pieces of the puzzles together in order to be ready to advance to new content. You already know how to handle each phase of the Twintania fight. It's just a matter of putting it all together.

[Kingmanath]

...

T1 was pretty difficult at the beggining with less stuff and management of both snakes.
T2 without enrage strat was a teamplay check
T4 a real DPS check, and tank + healer positions were very important
T5 was the most difficult fight the game had, so normal people had difficulties to beat it. It can oneshot, and so ? Just know what to do to avoid to be instant killed. Many people have done it, and I don't think they are more clever than other players. They just had a FC to play with, a good knowledge of fight mechanics, etc.
If people can't manage with T5 mechanics, no way they can beat T7-T9 where strategies are more complicated and everyone must know what to do.

[Alukah]

Uh what's the point of going through DF if you just make those people suicide lol. Other than, "just to fill slots". It is not helping the OP figure things out. Only advice I can give is to keep at it, you will kill her eventually and feel stronger and better for it. IF you think t5 is hard you aren't ready for SCoB.

Oh no I was just saying that not every DF team consists of "randoms", while for the person who solo queued it may seem like a pug the other players could be part of a coordinated partial premade, for those saying they can clear it in DF just fine. And yeah we kinda were just using the other two people as fillers, one of them actually knew what to do most of the fight, he was only inexperienced at twisters (and wiped the raid two times), though the healer... he definitely wasn't ready to clear t5, though I hope he does better in scob.

[silentwindfr]

i'm 30+ old, for info i have no trouble with the mechanic of the fight. sadly is not the case of everybody and i can understand why that, i can see why it have trouble and can need some adjustement. more important i really think that the futur content must be more balanced in the progression. you are happy with how are created the content i can perfectly understand it, however you can't avoid that it will displease player that want more than simple rope jumping fight, or fight that over use one shoot mechanic.

what disturb me more, is the fact that some people come and defend this bad design, because sorry T5 is a bad design in the whole BC progression. but like i have said before, it's normal, it was them first raid creation. even if the next turn have fault with the way they are make we feel that the difficulty curve don't skyrocket as much than T5 at the release.

[Ellatrix]

i'm 30+ old, for info i have no trouble with the mechanic of the fight. sadly is not the case of everybody and i can understand why that, i can see why it have trouble and can need some adjustement. more important i really think that the futur content must be more balanced in the progression. you are happy with how are created the content i can perfectly understand it, however you can't avoid that it will displease player that want more than simple rope jumping fight, or fight that over use one shoot mechanic.

what disturb me more, is the fact that some people come and defend this bad design, because sorry T5 is a bad design in the whole BC progression. but like i have said before, it's normal, it was them first raid creation. even if the next turn have fault with the way they are make we feel that the difficulty curve don't skyrocket as much than T5 at the release.

The design is fine. Each turn gets progressively harder. If you lack the ability to react to a mechanic (that you know is coming because the entire fight is completely scripted) in a few seconds, maybe raiding isn't for you.

The last fight is SUPPOSED TO BE HARD. If you could just walk in there and kill it without any practice, it's meaningless.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

things

There are already plenty of "easier" fights in the game. Namely turns 1-4, all the dungeons, and hard primals. You can't have EVERYTHING made easy, because as you said, there are also people who enjoy more challenging content.

And sorry, it's not bad design at all. There are SOME badly designed fights in the game (namely T7 and Ifrit EX, which actually punish you if you are too good), but T5 is not one of them. Hell, T9 is one of the best tuned fights I've ever experienced in an MMO and the difficulty gap between T8 and T9 is ten times the one from T4 to T5.

[silentwindfr]

The design is fine. Each turn gets progressively harder. If you lack the ability to react to a mechanic (that you know is coming because the entire fight is completely scripted) in a few seconds, maybe raiding isn't for you.

The last fight is SUPPOSED TO BE HARD. If you could just walk in there and kill it without any practice, it's meaningless.

i will appreciate that you avoid to attack me... because here we are talking of the opinion that some people have that don't means i do have trouble with the fight, my trouble with it lie in the fact that i don't have static. and DF, exept if you are lucky to drop with a premade are not the best place for complet it.

anyway, i feel it's pointless to have a debat here, everytime someone say something about raid, we get attacked and stuff like this. it's tiring...

[Snugglebutt]

The one thing that annoys me more than anything else is people assuming the soldiery bonus popping up in raid or new player present equals people incompetent or unable to do it when fact is that is not always the case at all as a lot of new players and those who have not done it before actually research the fight many times through videos and guides before joining a party for it.

Those who ask for linking achievement or item etc to prove done it does not mean those people who link such can do it. They could quite easily have bought a clear or been carried through it by others and is in no way proof that they can do it themselves. While it is true some new players to that place don't bother reading up on it beforehand and gives those that do a bad name being lumped in with them...people these days have just become dumb about it assuming everyone is bad if they haven't got that achievement or item when nothing could be further from the truth in many cases. I have had to carry and cover for people who have had clears to their names just like I have had to teach others who did not read the guides or watch tutorials and carried some who were new.

On the other hand something else annoys me is people assuming everyone who bought a clear via gil is a bad player etc, the hypocrisy of that stance is evident since at some stage everyone has bought with gil either materials for their crafting or bought gear from NPC's or marketplace to upgrade current items which is exactly the same thing. Paying in game gil to save time and effort which does not in fact indicate they wouldn't now or in future be able to do it themselves.

In fact I have done PF's and DF quite few times where people who claim to have completed raids and EX trials, claim to be 100% experienced and have the achievements and item to link are the ones causing wipes very often in their over confidence and arrogance while the new players who done the research wipe less than them, of course will get new players who never bothered to research fight causing a lot of wipes too but in terms of new players who read guides and watched videos vs experienced players...they wipe around same amount of times or sometimes even less than these elitist players who think they are better than new players just because they have done it before.

For example I mentioned in my FC that the thought had crossed my mind to pay for a quick and easy run of coil so could get an encrypted tomestone and some people said such ignorant things like they would lose respect for me, said things like if did so once it means I would abuse it in future and do it constantly in future (clearly they don't know me if they think that and it's not true a person would always do such in future anymore so than them never gathering materials instead of buying it just because they bought some from marketplace once in the past). Or they said it's P2W and that I would be hated by everyone for doing so...if that's the case maybe I should hate them for ever using the marketplace to buy materials to speed up crafting and save time having to level a gatherer or go out and get the materials themselves? They are hypocrites plain and simple.

Firstly if doing so once would equal losing respect from someone then they are the kind of person that I would not care for their respect given what I said above about how at some stage they have paid gil in game to get something whether to save time or effort and they are being hypocrites in terms of P2W given they have paid gil to 'win' something in terms of upgrading their gear form NPC or market or crafting materials already themselves.

Secondly just because you pay for a quick and easy run in order to save that time and effort one time does not indicate they cannot or will not do it properly in future, as for myself if I did decide in future to buy a single run then I would still want to practice and do the place properly and would not stop attempts to progress though it normally at a later stage.

[KarstenS]

we feel that the difficulty curve don't skyrocket as much than T5 at the release.

And your felling is wrong.

T1-4 was the warmup and T5 was the ENDBOSS.

T6-8 is the warmup again and T9 is the ENDBOSS.

And again the endboss is a long fight, with many completely different phases and more mechanics, than the turns before.

[Xine]

I find this entire thread lol worthy, simple fact is raiding isn't for everyone. If you don't have the awareness to watch everything around you, don't join a raid. If you don't have the time to bother learning the mechanics of a purely scripted fight, don't join a raid. I find it amusing that people complain about a fight and want it made easier to allow the masses of players who refuse to bother learning the fights so they can progress into yet even harder fights, only to cry about them and beg for another fight to be made easier. Hate me all you want, but I'd rather not see someone pay for all their clears in Coil and claim to know how to clear any turn in the coil simply because they have a bought win. How long did I bang my head against t5? 5 months, you wanna cry over having to actually learn this turn for a single run? Don't make me laugh. I had the mechanics down fine for at least 2-3 months while waiting on the rest of my static to memorize them, and hoping for their connection to not be utter shit. Why did I stick around with them for so long? Because they're my friends and I'm not guna bail on em just to progress. In hindsight I probably should have so I could've helped them with it, but meh, I didn't think of it at the time.

Want t5 made easy? It's already easy, I've helped carry a few people through it and have given step by step instructions for a few groups I've gone in to help. Sorry but I'm not going to help a random group learn the fight from Conflags again, I already had 1 group claim they knew up to Twisters and when I got in there to help em, they didn't even understand Divebombs, let alone Conflags+Fireballs. But as many have already said, if you can't beat t5, don't think for a second you'll have a shot at t6 and beyond, they ARE harder, and for a good reason. I personally enjoy the fights because they test my ability with my job and work my awareness even more.

I have to admit though, that "please allow for 2 groups to DF t5" made me laugh, 16 people scurrying around while dodging twisters? I'd love to see how many people kill each other with their twisters, but in all seriousness, that would make the fight nigh impossible to complete. The fight is just fine for the end boss of the First Coil, take your time and LEARN THE DANCE LIKE THE REST OF US DID.