MMORPGs moving to 1-10 MS server side polling

[Tiggy]

A) Polling rate is 100ms not 300ms. Do people really not remember that update?

B) That gif is outdated largely due to the change to 100ms from 300ms, and overall server improvements. If that's still your experience then there is something else wrong. I haven't seen anything that bad outside of a packet loss event and that's a web issue that the stats from WTFast prove. It's simply not relevant anymore. Bringing it up now only really serves to show how much things have improved a year later.

[Alukah]

Traps are finicky on a design level, not latency level or else everything else would have the same latency problem (slabs for the tablets, the sasquash realizing you've killed all monkeys etc.)

Not everything interacts with the server the same way... Not "everything else" needs to face exactly the same issues.

Because it's been proven and even confirmed by numerous ISPs time and time again - Level3.net/Sky and so on are the main culprits. There's zero, absolutely zero way to state that it's purely the game's fault when if I can get out of AoE's and you can't..that's not the game. If it was the game, no one would be able to dodge anything, ever. Game's don't selectively work for people like that, especially latency wise without there being user input error of some kind. You have a terrible net card on your mobo? You'll have issues - that's not the game. Your ISP routes through Level3.net and it's terrible? That's not the game. Your PS3 is old and breaking down? You'll have more issues than just on a latency level. The only factor in this is not: "It's SE's fault" or "It's SE's servers."

Look up Level3.net and MMORPGs, you're guaranteed to find even the companies who go through them complaining.

My net is not routed by level3, for me it's cogent, unless now you want to say all these providers are in the wrong and not SE.

This is why people blame the players, because they have zero knowledge and thus blame SE. SE can make the perfect MMORPG with the perfect polling but if your ISP routes through a backbone that is absolutely trash, it's not going to matter one bit.

I keep monitoring my net at all times when I play, if there was an issue on my or my ISP side I would know. SE could burn the world and there will be people like you shielding them from any responsibility.

Having both the cast bar and the AoE off sync and on separate timers with one going off before the other is still pretty bad design. Most competent MMOs with AoE markers have the cast bar visually implemented on the marker itself, with the marker filling up as the cast bar fills up too, but I guess some other MMOs do their own thing just because.

Shh SE can do no wrong, we are all just a bunch of baddies.

[JayCommon]

I can doge every AOE telegraf eva with 1000% accuracy bcuz I'm 1337 and ur net suxors. Git gud bro.







Sorry,

This thread didn't have one of these posts yet, and it just felt so empty without it

[SarcasmMisser]

A) Polling rate is 100ms not 300ms. Do people really not remember that update?

But people are still getting hit so clearly it's SE's fault and all improvements should be forgotten instead of acknowledging that some people are just terrible at dodging.

[Fornix]

Though I'm sure I wont change your opinion, whenever this topic arises there's always people like you who rush to put the blame on the player while having zero knowledge about the servers. If it makes you feel any better then yeah, SE servers are perfect and flawless, those like us who are used to action games where constant dodging is needed are a bunch of liars, conspiring to defame SE.

I'm starting to doubt your reading comprehension, so let me just bold it out for you this time:

A - There are no net issues, they're simply slow.
B - There are net issues, within the player's own network.
C - There are net issues, within the player's ISP network.
D - There are net issues, somewhere along the route between the player's ISP and the last node prior to the FFXIV's data center.

And less likely, as it'd involve many more players:
E - There are net issues, within the FFXIV data center's ISP.
F - There are net issues, within the FFXIV data center.
G - There are net issues, within the player's specific server clust / server / however hardware wise SE has hooked their systems up.

Bolded is out of player's control.

E/F/G would also be out of player's control, but are very unlikely to be the cause considering as to how whenever issues there would occur, (close to) all players would be affected.

[Tiggy]

My net is not routed by level3, for me it's cogent, unless now you want to say all these providers are in the wrong and not SE.

Yes actually Cogent is on the list of crappy hops as well. Stop attacking Tupsi. This is incredibly well documented and you bringing the "prove it" hammer on Tupsi won't change what many of us already know. The internet in North America is in a terrible state. The problems have even been in the news in the last year. I don't understand why this stuff is so poorly known.

[Tupsi]

Not everything interacts with the server the same way... Not "everything else" needs to face exactly the same issues.

Not everything does, but things that I listed are a server interaction or else you could manipulate quite a lot of your progression client side without server interaction to 'confirm' what is going on.

My net is not routed by level3, for me it's cogent, unless now you want to say all these providers are in the wrong and not SE.

I route though Cogent as well. It's been confirmed already that the main issues has been routing, especially if you go through level3.net.

SE could burn the world and there will be people like you shielding them from any responsibility.

Ironically, your logic dictates that it can never be an issue on our end.

Yes actually Cogent is on the list of crappy hops as well. Stop attacking Tupsi. This is incredibly well documented and you bringing the "prove it" hammer on Tupsi won't change what many of us already know. The internet in North America is in a terrible state. The problems have even been in the news in the last year. I don't understand why this stuff is so poorly known.

Exactly, this is why outside of Google's own personal stuff, the infrastructure in America is just so...shoddy.

[Dwill]

Not everything interacts with the server the same way... Not "everything else" needs to face exactly the same issues.




My net is not routed by level3, for me it's cogent, unless now you want to say all these providers are in the wrong and not SE.



I keep monitoring my net at all times when I play, if there was an issue on my or my ISP side I would know. SE could burn the world and there will be people like you shielding them from any responsibility.



Shh SE can do no wrong, we are all just a bunch of baddies.

Tupsi is right here. There are issues that are outside players AND Square Enix's control. Like Tiggy said, it's pretty well known(and documented) so you attacking Square Enix for a problem that's not on their side just toss any credibility you might have had on the topic out of the window.

[Fyrebrand]

Guild Wars 2 works the exact same way. But yes, the games that require strict timing suffer the most.

First of all, GW2 is not remotely similar to FFXIV in this regard. In GW2, if I move out of a red AoE circle before an attack connects I will not take damage from it -- even when it's down to the last instant.

In FFXIV, the game has already decided whether or not I'll get hit by the attack before it even happens. I need to be out of the circle almost a second or so before it disappears, or my fate is sealed. There is even a brief moment of nothing, after the circle disappears but before the attack plays out, where I can move as far from the blast as I want but it makes no difference.

Second, "the games that require strict timing suffer the most" is not an excuse. As I said, GW2 does not give me any problems, nor did other action-oriented combat systems such as in Tera, Wildstar, or ESO. FFXIV is literally the only game that suffers this kind of latency when it comes to my character's precise location.
But besides that, FFXIV is not a game I would describe as requiring "strict timing." Even besides AoEs, it's not like you can dodge anything. If a monster is planning to swipe at you and you move out of melee range, the attack is still going to hit you.

What that gif isn't showing (and is the key in this game) is the enemy's casting bar. That aoe circle is almost a red herring. It'll tell you WHERE you're gonna get smacked upside the head, but not WHEN (the casting bar gives this). The aoe circle will stay until the attack itself. ><; I've seen lots of complaints about this, so I'll ask folks "were you out before the casting bar was complete?" Invariably, the response is, "Oh, I dunno." ><; Mind you, on ps3 (I've played on it), that latency is killer (literally). By the time you see the aoe mark, the casting bar is probably already complete. >: ( You have to be psychic to dodge shit.

Ah, thanks I will watch for the cast bar and see if that acts as a more reliable indicator. But assuming it actually gives accurate timing information, this raises two questions:
1) Why is the game able to display a cast bar with accurate timing, but it can't do the equivalent with AoE circles?
2) If the cast bar is full, shouldn't the spell/attack be happening already? Why is there such a large gap of time between when the cast bar fills, when the AoE circles disappear, and when the actual attack animation/damage occurs?

This gif was demonstrating how your personal lag affected the game greatly

If it's just my own internet lag, then it seems odd that other games would not be affected by such things. Somehow, other MMO developers have managed to create action-oriented combat systems that require precise timing, and still play smoothly despite my "personal lag." I wonder what these other companies are doing differently, and why Square Enix can't do the same..?

you may also want to post the gifs of people who can run back into the AoE circle and not get hit.

Oh yeah, I get that as well. I can run out of the circle, wait for it to disappear, then run back in and be inside an explosion that doesn't even damage me.

It's still a 100% ignorant representation of how most telegraphed skills worked in this game by the fact that it only shows the telegraph and not the cast bar. The majority of skills determine target not when the circle disappears but when the cast bar finishes. People have largely figured this out by now while morons continue to whine about red circles and still can't figure out how they are supposed to read them.

I can't move out of AoEs until I know where they are. Regardless of when Titan's cast bar starts or ends, I can't begin to react to a Landslide until the game shows me visually where it is going to occur. If that visual graphic is in no way a representation of the attack's timing, then why doesn't Square Enix adjust it to make it more accurate? Why did they put such a significant gap of time between when the cast bar fills, and when the attack happens? There's no reason I should be able to run out of the way before an explosion blows, and still get hit by it even if I'm not there anymore, just because some "cast bar" determined where I was 2 seconds ago. Not to mention, why do we also have people here who claim not to suffer any latency, and can use the AoE graphics reliably?

If the cast bar is such an important factor in dodging and we can't trust the AoE circles, then Square Enix should come out and say so, and integrate a tutorial about it in-game. The circles are horribly misleading and not helpful at all.

[Errors]

*waves hand*

I have 20-35 ping in FFXIV, I'm from europe

55-60 ping. From the US in the midwest. I tend not to have any issues dodging ground markers. About the only time I've had issues is Titan was first introduced or the server (or myself) is getting a huge lag spike.

A trace route tells me the following:

1 - Local Network -> <1ms
2-4 - Surewest -> <3ms average
5 Kansas City Level 3 -> <1ms
6 Timeout -> ???
7 Chicago Level 3 -> 65ms
8 Timeout -> ???
9-10 Montreal Level 3 -> 214ms
11-13 - SE network -> <60 ms average
14 Server -> 59ms

Bugs me to no end that I consistently see Level 3 be my bottle neck. Even between their own networks.