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  1. #1
    Player
    AttacKat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    500
    Character
    Attackat Muaddib
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50

    Microfeeding: The Way to Chocobo Color Dyeing

    Many players has been experimenting with their Chocobos and its color dyeing process and dealt with frustration. In many cases, the players sinks into a color loops and their endless attempts of feeding different fruits just brings them back to the same trap. This thread is an attempt to help end all these frustrations. After two weeks of personal research and experiments, growing hundreds of different fruits and countless of feeding experiments and data analysis, I believe I am close at figuring out the chocobo color dyeing logic and its process.

    This is not exact because we do not have the exact RGB values the game uses, but it should help ease everyone's path on getting the Chocobo color of their choice, as well as define a road map on how to achieve the color they desire.**

    The initial discovery was that the "feather proc" signals the change in color, and this still hold true. However, what we did not have was a way to keep track of the behavior the fruits have thereafter. So some other players started to formulate behind the theory that all fruits behaves in the matter described in the patch note, deepen or lighten a given color, hence the creation of the Chocobo Colour Simulator spreadsheet. This theory is described in the Missing Manual thread.

    Following the Missing Manual theory, I started taking my experiment down that direction, and using the simulator I started to noticed many players faces with the color trap. After trying it out this way myself, I was never able to reach the desired color. It was with this I started noticing that when people recommends feed amount it tends to be in huge quantity of fruits and assumes the result is the net mathematical sum, so order/qty of feed doesn't matter.

    My whole reason to experiment down this path is that I have observed that in a very general sense, is most people recommends XYZ fruits, and the ones seeking help just feed that amount in one sitting, or one type of fruit until they get a feather proc if they are following the feather proc method. What happens here is most people (myself included) just takes into consideration only the math, and not the true value of RGB or color mixing in reality. I myself made this mistake back when I was doing the apple feed after I confirmed the feather proc method, and didn't pay any attention to this RGB value "wall", and kept on chasing the logic down the wrong path.

    Using apples as our simple example, we move from desert yellow down to blood red, but once we reach blood red, we hit the wall and start to wonder why apple won't bring down the red more. The reasoning behind this is very simple, and that is, the RGB value for blood red (143, 63, 39) has already hit the wall, and any more force feeding of apples will not allow the values to go down any further. When using apples, we are doing +R, -G, -B, and B for Blood Red is already at 39. If each fruit has an average value of 5 as others have derived, then how will 10 apples be able to bring B from 39 down to -9? It will not, because -9 B is not a possible value for any color. So in this case, only 8 apples has any true effect on the RGB value, and the other 2 are nullified.

    ** Due to the fact that we do not have actual RGB values used by the game, and all the numerical values are at best guesstimates, we cannot claim we are 100% on target in term of any of this, and at best, all we can do are only estimates, therefore, not everyone will have the exact same results. In addition, there are two sets of RGB values on the web, the original that defines RGB(216, 175, 80) » RGB(37, 35, 30) for Desert Yellow and Soot Black, and my rounded to by 8 increments, uses RGB(223, 183, 87) » RGB(47, 47, 39). All of the calculations in this post I used are from my RGB values. (read note)

    NOTE:
    9/12: RGB value updated, ver 4.0, Used in game print screen, then extracted RGB value using GIMP 7x7 sample space avg, verified with another sample location. RGB value now to EXACT reading and removed all rounding. This still may not be the exact in game RGB values.


    To take this into actual practice, we want to take blood red to soot black, the new calculator suggests 2 apples, 10 pears, and 12 berries. So we feed the bird all those fruits, in that order ...

    We end up with Currant Purple. Why? Because:
    Code:
    Step	Feed	Qty	143	63	39
    1	apple	2	153	53	29
    2	pear	10	103	103	0
    3	berry	12	43	43	60
    
    Current			43	43	60
    To Target		4	4	-21
    Current Guess	Currant Purple
    Path = Blood red -> No change -> Orchard Brown -> Currant Purple

    The above feed in reality is actually this:
    Code:
    Step	Feed	Qty	143	63	39
    1	apple	2	153	53	29
    2	pear	5	128	78	4
    3	pear	1	123	83	0
    4	pear	4	103	103	0
    5	berry	12	43	43	60
    Path: Blood Red -> NO change -> Mesa Red -> No change -> Orchard Brown -> Currant Purple

    But when we feed the fruits and keep in mind the RGB value limit, mainly, 0-255, and modify the feeding order, we can get away with this:
    Starting Colour Blood Red
    Code:
    Step	Feed	Qty	143	63	39
    1	berry	12	83	3	99
    2	pear	10	33	53	49
    3	apple	2	43	43	39
    
    Current			43	43	39
    To Target		4	4	0
    Current Guess	Soot Black
    Path: Blood red -> Gloom Purple -> Deepwood Green -> Soot Black

    Two feedings of the exact same fruits, but yet, very different results.

    My microfeeding procedure pretty much is just to pay careful attention on the order and amount of fruits are fed to help eliminates a lot of unnecessary mistakes.

    In another example, say you wish to reach Rolanberry Red, using the calculator**, it recommends

    Desert Yellow » Rolanberry Red
    RGB(223, 183, 87) » RGB(95, 31, 47)
    Difference: Red: -128, Green: -152, Blue: -40
    Feed the following to change to your desired colour:
    18 × Pears, 21 × Apples, 29 × Berries
    Once again, most of the people will likely just feed their chocobo 18 pears, 21 apples, and 29 berries in that order. However, feeding it this way will force G to 253 by the 14th pear, and B to 2 by the 17th pear, and -3 by the 18th, which is not within the color space. This in effect makes any G adjustment null after then 15th pear, and the 18th pear only adjustments the B by 2, and not 5 indicated by the calculator. Same will hold true for all the 21 apples that follows, since B is already at 0, and same will happen for berries.

    Producing a result of
    Code:
    pear	18	133	255	0
    apple	21	238	150	0
    berry	29	93	5	145
    
    Current		93	5	145
    To Target	2	26	-98
    Current Guess	Regal Purple
    Therefore, we need to modify the feeding so all the values adjustment are within the RGB value limit for each unit of fruit eaten,
    Code:
    pear	6	193	213	57
    apple	5	218	188	32
    berry	10	168	138	82
    pear	6	138	168	52
    apple	5	163	143	27
    berry	10	113	93	77
    pear	6	83	123	47
    apple	5	108	98	22
    berry	9	63	53	67
    apple	6	93	23	37
    
    Current		93	23	37
    To Target	2	8	10
    Current Guess	Rolanberry Red
    Again, here we can see both fed the same amount of fruits, but yet, produced very different results. With this knowledge in hand, we need to be careful on how we feed the fruits, especially at those end value ranges where 1 fruit too much may push the value to null and returns incorrect value.

    Soot Black Experiment:
    In my own experiment I reset my bird to desert yellow, employed the microfeeding method. Being Soot Black seems to be the most desired color, or at least the hottest color in discussion, I will set Soot Black as my initial, and ultimate trial.

    9/5: Desert Yellow -> Soot Black
    Code:
    Start	Desert Yellow	223	183	87		
    Step	Feed	Qty					
    1	berry	10	173	133	137	proc on 3rd and on, 8 procs
    2	pear	5	148	158	112	5 procs
    3	apple	5	173	133	87	5 procs
    4	berry	10	123	83	137	10 procs
    5	pear	10	73	133	87	10 procs
    6	apple	5	98	108	62	5 procs
    7	berry	5	73	83	87	5 procs
    8	pear	3	58	98	72	3 procs
    9	apple	5	83	73	47	5 procs
    10	berry	4	63	53	67	4 procs
    11	pear	4	43	73	47	4 procs
    12	apple	3	58	58	32	3 procs
    13	berry	2	48	48	42	2 procs
    
    Goal	Soot Black	47	47	39		
    Fruits: 18 apples, 31 berries, 22 pears.
    Result: Chestnut Brown
    2nd Feeding: Chestnut Brown -> Soot Black
    Code:
    Chestnut Brown			63	47	15		
    1	plum		2	53	57	25	2 procs
    2	berry		2	43	47	35	2 procs
    3	valfruit	1	48	42	40	1 proc
    Goal	Soot Black		47	47	39
    Result: Currant Purple
    3rd Feeding: Currant Purple -> Soot Black
    Code:
    Currant Purple		55	47	63		
    1	pear	2	45	57	53	2 proc
    2	apple	1	50	52	48	1 proc
    3	berry	1	45	47	53	1 proc
    4	pear	1	40	52	48	1 proc
    5	apple	1	45	47	43	1 proc
    Goal	Soot Black	47	47	39
    Total Fruits Fed:
    Code:
    apple		20
    berry		24
    pear		25
    plum		2
    valfruit	1
    Total		72

    Result: Soot Black


    1st Feeding feather proc log:








    2nd Feeding feather proc log:


    3rd Feeding feather proc log:

    And back to ->
    Midnight Blue
    Code:
    Step	Feed		Qty	47	47	39
    1	valfruit	1	52	42	44
    2	plum		1	47	47	49
    3	berry		3	32	32	64
    
    Target Colour RGB		31	31	63
    Target Colour		Midnight Blue
    (13)
    Last edited by AttacKat; 09-13-2014 at 10:08 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    AttacKat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    500
    Character
    Attackat Muaddib
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    NOTE 9/12: RGB value updated, ver 4.0
    Used in game print screen, then extracted RGB value using GIMP 7x7 sample space avg, verified with another sample location. RGB value now to EXACT reading and removed all rounding. This still may not be the exact in game RGB values.

    METHOD PROCEDURE: How do I do this?
    A. Go to FFXIV Chocobo Colour Calculator, select your current color, and then your desired color, click calculate. EG: Desert Yellow -> Rolanberry Red
    B. Go to the Chocobo Colour Simulator spreadsheet and and make a copy (File->Make a copy)
    C. Using the new spreadsheet copy, select your Starting color, and Target color, and input the recommended feed fruit and amount from step A. EG: pear 17, apple 19, berry 28
    D. Check if any of the RGB values is 0 or 255.
    E. If yes to step D, break that fruit into smaller qty by adding another step at the end and adjust the original qty so no value is 0 or 255, and the newly inserted qty is what you removed. EG: step 1: pear 17 into step 1: pear 14 and step 4: pear 3
    F. Repeat from step D for the next fruit until the "Current Guess" is the Target color and you have used up as many fruits as recommended. During this adjustment phase you will want to keep the To Target values for all three RGB within +/- 5. EG: step 2: apple 19 into step 2: apple 3, step 5: apple 16
    G: Feed your chocobo in the steps worked out from the spreadsheet.
    ** There may be times when you will need to rearrange the fruit feeding order. EG: berry must be fed first.

    Original feed recommendation:
    Code:
    Step	Feed	Qty	220	181	89
    1	pear	17	135	255	4
    2	apple	19	230	160	0
    3	berry	28	90	20	140
    
    Target Colour RGB	93	24	43
    To Target		3	4	-97
    Current Guess		Gloom Purple
    After adjustment:
    Code:
    Step	Feed	Qty	220	181	89
    1	pear	14	150	251	19
    2	apple	3	165	236	4
    3	berry	28	25	96	144
    4	pear	3	10	111	129
    5	apple	17	95	26	44
    
    To Target		-2	-2	-1
    Current Guess		Rolanberry Red
    How do I fine tune microfeeding?
    Easiest way is by working backwards. Once you figured out your feed order, using the feeding from above, take 1 unit of each fruit and place them at the end, rearrange those so the ending fruits keep you in the desired color range if necessary, the above simply becomes:
    Code:
    Step	Feed	Qty	220	181	89
    1	pear	14	150	251	19
    2	apple	3	165	236	4
    3	berry	27	30	101	139
    4	pear	2	20	111	129
    5@	apple	16	100	31	49
    6	berry	1	95	26	54
    7	pear	1	90	31	49
    8	apple	1	95	26	44
    
    To Target		-2	-2	-1
    Current Guess		Rolanberry Red
    where all the steps after 5 are for fine tuning purposes.
    FAQs

    Q: What is the benefit of the Microfeeding approach?
    A: By knowing the amount, the kind, and order, of fruits you need feed to adjust the RGB value, it allows you to do one initial massive feeding, and reduces the need to wait 6 hours at every feather proc. This approach quickly moves you within the desired color range after your first feeding.

    Q: Why are you NOT using the color map?
    A: Because the color map only shows single fruit color paths. The microfeeding method allows you to calculate what you need between any two colors.

    Q: What about the RNG that SE loves to throw at us?
    A: The RNG in this method comes from two places:
    1: We do not have the ACTUAL RGB values, so we best guesstimate what they are.
    2: We do not have the ACTUAL adjustment values of the fruits, therefore, they are also best guesstimates.
    Q: I am trapped in a loop between ColorA and ColorC, I want to get to ColorB but it keeps going back and forth between ColorA and ColorC. What do I do now?
    You are over shooting the color value of your desired color, so instead of feeding the full recommend amount, break it down into microfeeds. Using the Color Simulator Spreadsheet, starting with your current color and arrange your feeding so the last fruits takes you to the desired color range. Feed your Chocobo your newly derived microfeeding pattern, and stop at the first feather proc that takes you into the desire color range indicated by the spreadsheet. You can look at the recommendations for "Soot Black" for examples.
    (8)
    Last edited by AttacKat; 09-13-2014 at 10:01 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    AttacKat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    500
    Character
    Attackat Muaddib
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Refer to the Chocobo Color Screenshots thread for sample of dyed Chocobo color

    Paths to Soot Black (45, 43, 36)*
    * ALL paths here starts with the named color, ending with Soot Black.
    For those of you that are trying to get out of a loop, you can try feeding and stop at the step noted by @ or 1st feather proc, which ever is later.


    Desert Yellow
    Code:
    Step	Feed	Qty	220	181	89
    1	berry	15	145	106	164
    2	pear	10	95	156	114
    3	apple	15	170	81	39
    4	berry	10	120	31	89
    5	pear	10	70	81	39
    6	berry	5	45	56	64
    7	pear	2	35	66	54
    8	apple	3	50	51	39
    9	berry	1	45	46	44
    10	pear	1	40	51	39
    11	apple	1	45	46	34
    
    To Target		0	-3	2
    Chestnut Brown @ stop after 1st berry
    Code:
    Step	Feed	Qty	63	43	14
    1	plum	2	53	53	24
    2@	berry	1	48	48	29
    3	berry	1	43	43	34
    
    To Target		2	0	2
    Currant Purple @ stop after 2nd pear
    Code:
    Step	Feed	Qty	52	46	61
    1	apple	2	62	36	51
    2	pear	1	57	41	46
    3@	pear	1	52	46	41
    4	apple	1	57	41	36
    5	pear	1	52	46	31
    6	berry	1	47	41	36
    
    To Target		-2	2	0
    Deepwood Green
    Code:
    Step	Feed		Qty	31	44	34
    1	pineapple	1	36	49	29
    2	valfruit	1	41	44	34
    
    To Target			4	-1	2
    Ink Blue @ stop after 3rd pineapple
    Code:
    Step	Feed		Qty	27	32	40
    1	pineapple	2	37	42	30
    2@	pineapple	1	42	47	25
    3	valfruit	1	47	42	30
    
    To Target			-2	1	6
    Kobold Brown
    Code:
    Step	Feed	Qty	50	34	28
    1	plum	1	45	39	33
    
    To Target		0	4	3
    Loam Brown @ stop after 1st apple
    Code:
    Step	Feed	Qty	65	53	43
    1	pear	1	60	58	38
    2	berry	3	45	43	53
    3@	apple	1	50	38	48
    4	apple	1	55	33	43
    5	pear	2	45	43	33
    
    To Target		0	0	3
    Marsh Green @ stop after the 2nd berry
    Code:
    Step	Feed	Qty	52	56	34
    1	berry	1	47	51	39
    2@	berry	1	42	46	44
    3	apple	1	47	41	39
    					
    To Target		-2	2	-3
    Midnight Blue @ stop after 3rd pineapple
    Code:
    Step	Feed		Qty	25	26	57
    1@	pineapple	3	40	41	42
    2	pineapple	1	45	46	37
    		
    To Target			0	-3	-1
    Morbol Green @ stop after 5th apples
    Code:
    Step	Feed	Qty	32	72	72
    1	apple	4	52	52	52
    2	pear	2	42	62	42
    3	berry	1	37	57	47
    4@	apple	1	42	52	42
    5	berry	1	37	47	47
    6	apple	1	42	42	42
    
    To Target		3	1	-6
    Raisin Brown
    Code:
    Step	Feed	Qty	66	53	18
    1	plum	1	61	58	23
    2	berry	3	46	43	38
    
    To Target		-1	0	-2
    Rolanberry Red @ stop after 4 pears
    Code:
    Step	Feed	Qty	93	24	43
    1	plum	1	88	29	48
    2	berry	3	73	14	63
    3@	pear	4	53	34	43
    4	pear	1	48	39	38
    
    To Target		-3	4	-2

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
    Feeding Paths**

    ** ALL paths here starts with the default Desert Yellow color.

    Abyssal Blue
    Code:
    Step	Feed	Qty	220	181	89
    1	berry	15	145	106	164
    2	pear	10	95	156	114
    3	apple	10	145	106	64
    4	berry	10	95	56	114
    5	pear	5	70	81	89
    6	apple	3	85	66	74
    7	berry	3	70	51	89
    8	pear	2	60	61	79
    9	berry	2	50	51	89
    	
    To Target		1	-4	0
    Dalamud Red
    Code:
    Step	Feed	Qty	220	181	89
    1	berry	25	95	56	214
    2	pear	12	35	116	154
    3	apple	15	110	41	79
    4	pear	4	90	61	59
    5	apple	6	120	31	29
    
    To Target		2	-4	-2
    Lotus Pink
    Code:
    Step	Feed		Qty	220	181	89
    1	pineapple	6	250	211	59
    2	plum		5	225	236	84
    3	valfruit	5	250	211	109
    4	plum		5	225	236	134
    5	valfruit	5	250	211	159
    6	plum		5	225	236	184
    7	valfruit	5	250	211	209
    8	plum		3	235	226	224
    9	valfruit	3	250	211	239
    10	valfruit	1	255	206	244
    
    To Target			-1	1	1
    Sky Blue
    Code:
    Step	Feed		Qty	220	181	89
    1	berry		9	175	136	134
    2	valfruit	4	195	116	154
    3	plum		12	135	176	214
    
    To Target			-2	1	-3
    (5)
    Last edited by AttacKat; 09-15-2014 at 12:22 AM.

  4. 09-07-2014 10:05 AM
    Reason
    Post below more updated

  5. #4
    Player
    Felis's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Gridania
    Posts
    11,900
    Character
    Skadi'a Felihzeh
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 70
    (9)

  6. #5
    Player
    Nutz's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
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    Character
    Monkey Nutz
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 60
    That chart seems to make sense, though I only found it after feeding my chocobo for the last time (I ended up on the color I wanted). I can say, however, that the path I took is not on the chart. I was at Coral pink, fed Valfruit (several, foolishly) and ended up at Regal Purple. So it looks like there are probably additional paths not outlined. There's not actually any path to suggest what happens when feeding Valfruit while Coral Pink, but I imagine a complete chart would have 6 arrows (1 for each fruit) coming from each color, excluding extremes.
    (0)

  7. #6
    Player
    Limecat's Avatar
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    Dec 2012
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    759
    Character
    Limecat Indignatio
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    It's not that there are strict paths, it's more that this is a relatively easy chart for people to follow instead of mathing out the correct RGB shift and unloading a pile of fruit while hoping RNG doesn't make the bird deviate too much.
    (1)

  8. #7
    Player
    Anonymoose's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    Character
    Anony Moose
    World
    Excalibur
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    Arcanist Lv 70
    I just used the color dropper from MSPAINT to lift the solid colors from the squares in the Dye UI window and using those numbers with calculator and simulator's formulas, plus the feed rotations of "microfeeding," I've had pretty decent luck in doling out advice. You usually still have to course-correct a bit at the very end, so it's not infallible, but it's pretty good,
    (2)

  9. #8
    Player
    AttacKat's Avatar
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    Character
    Attackat Muaddib
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymoose View Post
    I just used the color dropper from MSPAINT to lift the solid colors from the squares in the Dye UI window
    This was how I obtained the color values for my RGB spreadsheet, except I used both ACDPro and Perfect Photo Suite and noticed different values for neighboring pixels in the same color box. The difference was the reasoning behind why I rounded the values instead of taking the exact.
    (1)
    Last edited by AttacKat; 09-07-2014 at 08:58 PM.

  10. #9
    Player
    reivaxe's Avatar
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    Aug 2014
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    Character
    Marcella Cat
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    Tried this Deepwood Green route to Soot Black ... gave me Raisin Brown ...

    I'm just gonna do my own thing now. Too many people seem to be getting it in ways that don't work for me. :/
    (2)
    Last edited by reivaxe; 09-08-2014 at 02:47 AM.

  11. #10
    Player
    AttacKat's Avatar
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    Character
    Attackat Muaddib
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by reivaxe View Post
    Soot Black ... gave me Raisin Brown ...
    Raisin Brown
    Code:
    Step	Feed	Qty	71	55	23
    1	plum	1	66	60	28
    2	berry	1	61	55	33
    3	berry	1	56	50	38
    4	berry	1	51	45	43
    
    Target Colour RGB	47	47	39
    Raisin Brown -> Loam Brown -> Soot Black
    (0)

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