Chocobo Dye - The Missing Manual

[Syrehn]

This was originally posted in the Chocobo Dyeing R&D Thread where the page count is still climbing... There's a lot of information in there to sift through and some of it appears to be getting lost so here it is again.

Ok, so when you think of a computers colour values that the monitor uses to determine colour, it looks something like this (using values ranging from 0 through 255):

*Example*

RED 0------------|-------------255 [128]
GREEN 0-------|------------------255 [078]
BLUE 0-------------------|------255 [205]

Now when you move the values around you reach all variables of colour. Maxing the RED slider to 255 while at the same time decreasing both the GREEN and BLUE slider to 0, displays a complete RED colour.

In another example, decreasing the RED slider to zero while at the same time increasing the GREEN and BLUE sliders to 255 causes the colour to display as a very vibrant CYAN colour.

In the last example, balancing all three sliders at the same value will display varying shades of BLACK and WHITE. Having RED, BLUE, and GREEN values set all to zero displays BLACK. Having RED, BLUE, and GREEN values set all to 255 (max) displays WHITE.


*NOTE: The Following Is False Information

Originally assumed, due to the tooltip's poor wording, we thought that the chocobo dye would work like this:

Darkens Red = Moves only the RED colour slider towards zero.
Lightens Red = Moves only the RED colour slider towards 255.

Darkens Green = Moves only the GREEN colour slider towards zero.
Lightens Green = Moves only the GREEN colour slider towards 255.

Darkens Blue = Moves only the BLUE colour slider towards zero.
Lightens Blue = Moves only the BLUE colour slider towards 255.

This would be an easy to comprehend way to do Chocobo dyeing, however THIS IS NOT THE WAY IT'S IMPLEMENTED (F*** ME, AMIRITE?)


*NOTE: The Following Is How The System Actually Works

The is what the tooltips actually mean:

DEEPENS RED = Make the RED MORE vibrant, and opposing colours (BLUE and GREEN) LESS vibrant automatically. (RED slider increases toward 255, BLUE and GREEN slider decreases toward 0)
LIGHTENS RED = Make the RED LESS vibrant, and opposing colours (BLUE and GREEN) MORE vibrant automatically. (RED slider increases toward 0, BLUE and GREEN slider decreases toward 255)

DEEPENS GREEN = Make the GREEN MORE vibrant, and opposing colours (BLUE and RED) LESS vibrant automatically. (GREEN slider increases toward 255, BLUE and RED slider decreases toward 0)
LIGHTENS GREEN = Make the GREEN LESS vibrant, and opposing colours (BLUE and RED) MORE vibrant automatically. (GREEN slider increases toward 0, BLUE and RED slider decreases toward 255)

DEEPENS BLUE = Make the BLUE MORE vibrant, and opposing colours (RED and GREEN) LESS vibrant automatically. (BLUE slider increases toward 255, RED and GREEN slider decreases toward 0)
LIGHTENS BLUE = Make the BLUE LESS vibrant, and opposing colours (RED and GREEN) MORE vibrant automatically. (BLUE slider increases toward 0, RED and GREEN slider decreases toward 255)

The values these fruits provide have an RNG window. Meaning that a lighten red fruit can decrease the red value from -3 to -6 while simultaneously increasing the green/blue values from +3 to +6; your mileage may vary.


This is how the Chocobo food colours associate:

RED<------------->CYAN (green and blue)
BLUE<------------->YELLOW (red and green)
GREEN<------------->MAGENTA (red and blue)

Now keep in mind that the Chocobo's default colour is 'DESERT YELLOW' which means that its initial colour sliders look like this:

*DESERT YELLOW*
RED 0---------------------|----255 [216]
GREEN 0-------------------|------255 [175]
BLUE 0--------|-----------------255 [080]

This means that any colour tweaking that needs to be done assume that these are the starting values.

EXTRA INFORMATION

So how do I make a white Chocobo?

Going off the RGB colour sliders, the colour white is achieved by getting as close to 255 in all colours (RED, GREEN, and BLUE). To achieve this you will need to feed your chocobo an equal amount of the types of food which say they LIGHTEN a colour (RED, GREEN or BLUE). That way, only one colour's sliders moves toward 0, while the other two move toward 255.

Now keep in mind your Chocobo starts at Desert Yellow which naturally has a higher Green and Red starting value, this means you'll want to feed him more fruit that increases the blue colour value initially.

So how do I make a black Chocobo?

Much like the white Chocobo, the colour black is achieved by getting as close to 0 in all colours (RED, GREEN, and BLUE). To achieve this you will need to feed your chocobo an equal amount of the types of food which say they DEEPEN a colour (RED, GREEN or BLUE). That way, only one colour's sliders moves toward 255, while the other two move toward 0.


Resources

- Currently it appears there are 2 different spreadsheets of Chocobo RGB values. The "Original" is FFXIV Chocobo Colors and the other "Updated (a.k.a 8th Scale)" version is the RGB Color Reference (by AttacKat).

There is a theory that when using the revised RGB Color Reference spreadsheet to try your integer at +/-8 if doing the math manually. In the samples in the next post and in the Chocobo Dye R&D thread myself and a few others use the original RGB spreadsheet and a +/-5 for ease of calculation because it seems like a sweet spot to hit the majority of colours.

*Note: I would advise against using the recipe's found in the FFXIV Chocobo Colors spreadsheet (use it for RGB reference only) as many users have stated throughout the Chocobo Dye R&D thread that they do not yield the desired result; they likely use an extreme excess of Chocobo feed to attempt to get to a colour.

We also do not have the ACTUAL RGB dye values. The above docs are a "best guesstimate" as to what they are.

- It appears that a spreadsheet for attempting to figure out RGB values has popped up in the Chocobo Dyeing R&D Thread - Kudos Loony!

- There is also a Chocobo Color Map to try to help users get their desired colours. The map is based off of information gathered from the forums (via users trial & error); it's not a 100% guaranteed guide to your desired plumage colour but will likely get you close. - Kudos Alinah

- The Chocobo Colour Simulator is a spreadsheet that appears to follow the +/-5 to attempt to help users gain their desired colour; this document is read only so be sure to save a copy. Select your current and desired colour, erase the current fruit names and quantities from the white fields (nothing else), type the fruits you are thinking of feeding and it will calculate the end result. As you add/remove fruits you'll see what the next result is. The above Chocobo Color Map can be used as reference if needed. - Kudos Rythea

- FFXIV Chocobo Colour Calculator appears to be the most recent calculator. It calculates the difference between current/desired colour then works out the fruits needed using +/-5 and allows the user to choose between "Original" or "Updated (a.k.a 8th Scale)" RGB colours; my personal preference is the "Original" RGB but the difference in fruit recommendations between the 2 seems negligible.

There is speculation that by mass feeding all of 1 type of fruit before moving to the next set of fruit that you can possibly hit an RGB wall and the calculator does have a note ("If any of the above fruits in your recipe are quite high, it is recommended to alternate them with the others when feeding, so that you do not max out your RGB values by feeding all of the same type of fruit at once.") to reflect this when you push the Calculate button. This seems like the best version of an automated calculator so far. - Kudos Chopski

[Syrehn]

Chocobo Dye - FAQ's

Question 1:
Should I use the recipe's on the FFXIV Chocobo Colors spreadsheet?

Answer:
As mentioned in the above post the recipe's listed there are not 100% accurate; while they might work for some they won't work for all. Many users are stating they are not getting their desired results by following them.


Question 2:
Do the numbers you are giving in the samples below mean the amount of times that you see the growing new feathers message or is that the total amount of the fruit itself?

Answer:

The "times X" indicates the total amount of fruit of each type you should feed him in one go (all at once).
Each fruit you feed may or may not trigger its own "color has changed" message as it adjusts the values behind the scenes.
If you feed all the fruits listed, you should see at least one "changed colors" message, but even more than that is likely.

FOR SCIENCE!

Question/Statement 3:
Fruits only have one effect, there is no lighten x and darken y and z, y and z appear darker only because you removed x, but their value never got up, otherwise it'd be impossible to get white in multiple feeds like I did since every step would cancel the previous one.

Answer:

Each fruit does indeed affect all three color values positively or negatively. It is very much possible to reach every color as well. If you want to reach Black (all values near zero) you would feed a trio of Darkeners (as they subtract two colors while giving a positive boost to the other). Think about it like this:

Xelphatol Apple: +R -G -B
Mamook Pear: -R +G -B
O'Ghomoro Berry: -R -G +B

Total -2R -2G -2B

The net result is a mass decrease in values to ALL colors evenly.

Question 4:
The the questions begs an answer of, if people who learn how to get to Soot Black try to teach others the path to get there, how do you get everyone there without getting someone caught in a loop? Even though they're all reaching the same colors up until Soot Black? And then another question begs to be said, do we just keep bouncing back and forth until we get lucky via RNG or do we start over and make our way back there again somehow?

Answer:
That's an exceptional question because it's doubtful that everyone is at the same inner RGB value. The closer you are in shades to a desired colour the more difficult it becomes to get that colour. The only suggestion to try to avoid a loop when you're close to your desired plumage colour is small controlled feeds of a single type of fruit. This way you're not mass adjusting multiple RGB levels.


Question 5:
Do I feed all of them at once? Or do I stop when I see the first "feather" message? Is there any difference if I get 1,3, 5 or 10 feather messages?

Answer:

You feed them all at once, and continue to feed the amount even if you trigger the "growing new feathers" message.

What is happening behind the scenes is you are shifting your Chocobo's hidden RGB values around (even if you don't see the indication of new feathers). Each dye appears to have a range for each color (I.e. 25-35Red, 100-120Green, 150-160Blue for color "X") and if all three numbers are inside these values you will active that plumage color on your next change. When you see "growing new feathers" message, you have effectively pushed yourself from your current color range into a new one.

*Example*
Color "X" Range = 25-35Red, 100-120Green, 150-160Blue
Color "Y" Range = 25-35Red, 100-120Green, 160-170Blue

Question 6:
I'm at X colour and need Y colour. How do I get there? Help!

Answer:

Myself, Ravenguard and several others in the Chocobo Dyeing R&D Thread have been attempting to help users work towards their desired plumage colours based on the above information. Be aware that while we do our best to guide as much as we can, it's impossible to help every single person due to:

1. FFXIV forum posting limits... "New forum post cannot be made due to either you have reached to your daily limit or your main character's level is not high enough."... Seriously Square-Enix what the Longstop Brayflox!?! >_<
   
2. Personal time constraints (sleep, work, game, school, life, etc.)

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Chocobo Dye - Colour Shift Samples

The values that a fruit can change a colour value appear to range from +/-3 to +/-6. These examples are samples that were posted in the Chocobo Dyeing Thread to help players work towards their desired plumage colour (usually Soot Black) and are going based off an integer of +/-5 for the ease of calculating; it appears to be a "sweet spot".

We do not have the ACTUAL RGB dye values (we have a best guesstimate using the RGB docs in the "Resources" section) and there is no way to know the exact RGB value that each persons Chocobo is sitting at. This is where RNG comes into play when attempting to get a player into their desired colour range so mileage may vary.

The closer a person is in shade to their desired plumage colour (i.e. Soot Black) the trickier it becomes to slide into that colour range; it is possible to get caught in a colour loop.

There is no recipe that appears to work the same way for every single person. The following samples are not an exact science and as mentioned there is an RNG factor. Feel free to try them but don't get upset if they don't get you exactly into your desired colour range; tweaking is more often than not required.

Dye Samples (showing how to push towards a desired colour):

From Coeurl Yellow Towards Soot Black

Can you point me out in the right way towards soot black from coeurl yellow?

Keep in mind, this is not a complete 100% exact science yet, and will take a few Plumage changes to better guide you toward the color you want.

Here is the color chart for COEURL YELLOW:

182R 129G 3B

I would recommend the following for starters:

x10 O'ghomoro Berry
x3 Mamook Pear

What this should do is greatly reduce your Chocobo's RED color (which Coeurl Yellow is high in) while raising your BLUE color a bit (which it is very low in).
The green will also decrease by a small amount (theoretically).

Results are in - Moss Green

If you look at the RGB for Coeurl Yellow, Moss Green (where you're at now), and Soot Black... Ravenguard put you on the right track. Your RED/GREEN values have been reduced while your BLUE slightly increased into Soot Black range. The next step would be to continue reducing RED/GREEN while maintaining BLUE at around the same value as it is now.

Starting Color: Coeurl Yellow
182 129 3

Current Color: Moss Green
105 108 33

Desired Color: Soot Black
37 35 30

Now the goal is to keep your BLUE at or near the same value and to decrease your GREEN and RED by around 65ish points. Try something like this:

x2 O'Ghomoro Berry
x1 Mamook Pear
x1 Xelphatol Apple

For every group of the above you feed it, you will lower your GREENs and REDs evenly, while keeping your BLUEs around the value it is now (33).

You're going to want to feel him multiple, but to keep it in this pairing. For instance:

x10 O'Ghomoro Berry
x5 Mamook Pear
x5 Xelphatol Apple

I believe that would be a good start for the next plumage change. You're on the right path to Soot Black!

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From Coral Pink Towards Grape Purple

Would anyone be able to help me get my chocobo from coral pink to grape purple?

Let's see.

Coral Pink
200R 101G 87B

Grape Purple
52R 36G 54B

You're going to want the GREENs and BLUEs to stay roughly similar right off the bat (for the eventual drop in all colors), so you're going to want to decrease your REDs first and foremost.

Try this initially:

x10 O'ghomoro Berry
x10 Mamook Pear

What this should so is cause a HUGE drop of the RED's if your Chocobo's plumage, while stopping his GREENs and BLUEs from increasing or decreasing.

Alright so now my chocobo is shale brown >.> not much better than coral pink lol.. any advice as to where i should go from here to get him to grape purple?

Alright so now my chocobo is at Qiqurn Brown from shale brown last night. Fed him 3 berries, 5 pears and 5 apples. I dont think i understand how this works so any help would be great on what i should feed him next to get to grape purple. Thanks!

You're going to have a multi-step process.

Starting Color: Shale Brown
140R, 122G, 101B

Current Color: Qiqirn Brown
147R, 103G, 56B

Desired Color: Grape Purple
52R, 36G, 54B

Your last feed (Qiqirn Brown) you managed to drop your Green/Blue but increase your Red. Your next feed should be again something like:

x10 Berries
x10 Pears

This is going to drop your Red while keeping Green and Blue consistent. This should probably put you at a dark green colour (possibly something like Ochu). Once you get to that point, repost the colour you receive and we can take another look. From there it should be a matter of dropping Green while maintaining Red/Blue.

Wow, you were spot on! Ochu green he is haha. What should be my next move?

w00t! You're welcome.

Current Colour: Ochu Green
57R 92G 51B

Destination Colour: Grape Purple
52R 36G 54B


Alrighty, from here try the following:

x6 Apples
x6 Berries

This combo should result in a RGB of around 57R, 32G, 51B and should push you into Grape Purple range. For Science!

You were right again haha. Grape purple : D

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From Shadow Blue Towards Soot Black

So, from charcoal gray I am trying to get soot black. I feed Him and he's Shadow Blue

Ok, bear with me on this one, but I might have an idea. Lets lay the groundwork out on this one:

Shadow Blue
49R 49G 64B

Soot Black
37R 35G 30B

Now this is where a bit of speculation comes in: I believe that each fruit will increase or decrease a value by a range of +/-3 to +/-6. To try to round out the RNG, I am going to use an average of +/-5 for each fruit. Going on that assumption, here is what I recommend (and please don't hate me if this isn't 100%):

x2 Cieldalaes Pineapple
x4 Xelphatol Apple
x4 O'ghomoro Berry
x4 Mamook Pear

What the pineapple will do is attempt to lower your BLUE values below that of your GREEN and RED. After that, by feeding him an equal amount of Apples, Berries, and Pears, you will lower all three color values evenly, and hopefully drop them into the range of Soot Black.

As I stated above, I believe there is a slight RNG in how many points will be added or subtracted to each value when feeding any fruit, although theoretically this should place you around your desired plumage color.

[RegnumMagik]

This makes a lot more sense, thanks!

[Felis]

Also don't forget to mention the "new feathers are growing" message

[Brozenwall]

So I have Meadow Green. I want Rolanberry Red. What should feed my chocobo, More or Less.

[Loony_BoB]

Glad my spreadsheet is being put to good use. ^^

[Sagittarian]

So I have Meadow Green. I want Rolanberry Red. What should feed my chocobo, More or Less.

You are at about (132, 150, 92). You want to get to (84, 19, 35). The differential is (-48, -131, -57) for a total absolute difference of -236.
Each fruit alters all 3 colors moving 2 in one direction and the third in the other. So the absolute difference contributed by each fruit is 5 or -5. With an absolute difference of -236 this means you will need ~48 fruits total (236/5).
Since your absolute difference is negative you want to stick with the fruits that deepen one particular color (moving that one color closer to 255). That means it is lessening the other 2 making your overall color totals closer to 0.
Since you need to drop Green by a lot more than Red or Blue, you will probably want to stick with
Xelphatol Apple: +R -G -B
O'Ghomoro Berry: -R -G +B
with fewer of
Mamook Pear: -R +G -B

Considering the Apples and Berries will cancel each other out for R and B, let's start by assuming that we will need ~10 Pears. This is because we want to reduce Red and Blue by about the same amount overall. That gives us a differential of (-50, +50, -50). Since that increased Green we now need (0, -181, -7). That comes out to be 37 more fruit. Since that is an odd number and we want to lower Blue a bit also, let's use 19 Apples and 18 Berries.
Totals:
19 Apples: (95, -95, -95)
18 Berries: (-90, -90, 90)
10 Pears: (-50, 50, -50)
------- (-45, -135, -55)
End Color: ~(87, 15, 37)
and hopefully that is within the threshold to actually get the desired color.

[Barboron]

Cool, full thread on it I am going to reference this over in my thread.

I did reference your post in the R&D thread previously.

[Cyrus-Wallace]

Wow, I didn't understand anything, maybe because english is not my native language or I'm dumb. So, let's say I'm with my desert yellow choco and I want to feed it with dalamud red. I need X amount of fruits. According to the spreadsheet, it's Xelphatol Apple x32, O'Ghomoro Berries x22, Mamook Pear x15. These fruits are from Desert yellow, I pressume. So, I gotta feed it with ALL the apples first, then ALL the berries and then ALL the pears? or what's the order? I did this the other day and it became an Olive Green. Then I gave it a lemon and he's back to Desert Yellow. No idea how this works -.-

[Barboron]

Wow, I didn't understand anything, maybe because english is not my native language or I'm dumb...

Yes, the spreadsheet will tell you what to feed it when starting from desert yellow. However, not everyone will need the exact same number of fruits because of RNG. So, the RGB scales from a value of 0-255 for each colour. Each fruit will effect the values of each colour by adding or subtracting a number between 3 and 6, that's where the RNG comes in which means different people may get slightly different colours for the same fruit.

Also, the Han Lemon is suppose to bring it back to Desert Yellow.