SE's most difinitive statement yet on parsers

[Tygg]

How is it not available to them? Whilst they can't directly run it on the console, they can still benefit from it's feedback just the same as a PC player by sharing data. Watch the Summerford farm target dummies to see what I mean.

The data is not available to me. It is available to someone that can give it to me. It is still not available to me.

[Souljacker]

I still would like to know how using a parser helps someone "gain an advantage". Are you admitting that otherwise, people would be using bad rotations and playing at a sub-par level and so only people with access to parsers will play better? I just don't understand the logic behind these statements, or why anyone would argue that keeping people playing at a lower level benefits the playerbase as a whole.

I'd also like to point out that anyone here who has looked up a rotation has benefited from the existence of a parser. This is how optimal rotations are found - by parsing real data and seeing that this sequence is superior to that one.

Really - everyone needs to chill out and stop acting like parsers are going to destroy the game.

[Kaethra]

PS4 players can't parse. You are using data and software not available to all players to gain an advantage. The fact that the community is mixed platform makes it Cheating per the ToS.

Guess we're cheating too by using this:



PS4 users can't use that. Also LCD displays on logitech Keyboards can also display parses:

[Exstal]

Some people choose to follow the rules, some choose to cheat because they are pretty sure nothing will happen to them, that's a personal thing there, I choose not to use parsers, because at this point using one is cheating. I'm guessing you couldn't find anything I said about a blanket statement of parsing being cheating, because everything I said was about third party programs, so you try to slyly slip into another post implying I think the act of parsing is cheating, when anyone could read my posts and see I believe the act of using a program to parse is cheating. Good try though.

So you knew the other guy was saying, "the act of parsing" yet you kept going on about "third party programs". So you're both at fault for not stopping.

Arguing for the sake of argument? Sounds like it, eh?

[Elven]

PS4 players can't parse. You are using data and software not available to all players to gain an advantage. The fact that the community is mixed platform makes it Cheating per the ToS.

Technically anyone can parse without a third party parser but you have to do it old school either read the battle log as you go or watch replays of your gameplay. What these people are arguing is just plain lazy and quality of life stuff. Whatever you do don't say that anything outside the Tos is cheating or taking shortcuts are basically cheating they will just regurgitate the it's not cheating phrase again.

[Gormogon]

I still would like to know how using a parser helps someone "gain an advantage". Are you admitting that otherwise, people would be using bad rotations

That's a misconception.

It's not that it's an advantage in making you a better player. It's an advantage in spotting how bad a bad player is under performing and it helps justify getting rid of them from the group. Something you can do without a parser by just looking at ilvl and comparing it to someone good you occasionally play with. Though without parsers players will tend to just whatever the situation but with parser information it just gets nasty.

Since that's where parsers get used more seriously more often which is in groups in dungeons/raids.

A bad player is gonna be bad regardless of having a parsers. (Dare you to tell me a 3 year old will get better with parsers)
A good player is gonna be good regardless of having a parser.

Top excelling players don't need parsers to judge timings, stats, etc. It's their way of life to constantly do this especially when changes are introduced.

[Sebazy]

Ps yay you're back!

It's like experience, knowledge, skill, talent, common sense, experimentation, advice, seeing someone else rotation and judgement calls (mimicking what they are doing because they are obviously out performing you), and so on and so on are things that can't happen because with parsers you magically become #1 in seconds.

Hypothetical situation. Fresh 50 SMN comes along and does some regular 8 man content with an experienced 110 geared SMN. In what way does the game show the new SMN how his damage is stacking up compared to the veteran? The way I see it, the best he can do is scroll through the log and compare ruin and fester hits which is a relatively small portion of a SMNs damage compared to other jobs. Want a weigh up much you got out of your Raging strikes cooldown vs the other guy? Good luck with that!

There's many reason why people choose to and choose not to use a parser. With near a decade of seeing it on MMO's everyone has their own individual reasons. Yet categories and stereotypes form due to a group of player using it and behaving a certain way.

Oooh the experience card again. I can play this game too!

http://brews.guildportal.com/Guild.a...TopicID=675031 - Oh hey, 'hardcore' data going back to 2001 content, also note that if Seredith was there, I was there as well.

http://eq.magelo.com/profile/9093 - And of course nothing says 'Aren't you too old to be playing games now?' like a 4 digit Magelo profile that's still wearing Kunark loot.

16 and a bit years of substantiated experience (And yes, it stings to admit that, but I've also made a fair career from games so I can't complain too much) and I still stand by my opinion that you played with the wrong crowd. My WoW guild was incredibly tight knit, highly competitive and yet never once did we ever bash or abuse each other over parser results. And I can promise, that if they did, I'd have been the first to get it in the neck as I'm a horrid DPSer Yes whilst there's no shortage of abusive people out there, plenty of people simply strive to do the very best they can, not to mention plenty of people are more than capable of having friendly rivalries with each other (It's this facet of human nature that makes Strava the phenomenon that it is).

A big chunk of your case seems to rest on the assumption that every single last parser user is a raving abusive d-bag. Whilst I'll agree that PF can feel like that more often than not, your fears are thankfully partially unfounded.

Technically anyone can parse without a third party parser but you have to do it old school either read the battle log as you go or watch replays of your gameplay.

I really don't know how I can state it more clearly without putting it in 72pt bold.

It is impossible to self parse a proper dot 'rotation' with any degree of accuracy.

A) No time stamps
B) No log entry
B) All of your directly afflicted dots get compressed into a single small flying text element that is visible for a couple of seconds
C) No crit indication beyond 'the number was a bit higher'
D) Ground AEs also throw up additional flying text elements separate from the dot stack
E) There is no way of knowing what each flying text element represents, was that 300 damage hit my pet? My ruin? My dots?

[Alukah]

I don't understand why this thread is still ongoing (for 54 pages!), SE took a stance, you can debate it until you die but whether you agree or disagree with it nothing will change, you don't set the rules, they do.

Just let it go, the status quo won't change, those who want to use them will keep using them, those who don't are free not to.

[Mcshiggs]

So you knew the other guy was saying, "the act of parsing" yet you kept going on about "third party programs". So you're both at fault for not stopping.

Arguing for the sake of argument? Sounds like it, eh?

There were more than me and one other person in the exchanges, one was saying the act of parsing, another was saying that the tools were ok, because they believe that parsers themselves are ok, and the fact that they are a parser outweighs the fact that they are third party programs. Also this whole thread is about parsing via third party programs, not the act of parsing all together.

[Tashigi]

There were more than me and one other person in the exchanges, one was saying the act of parsing, the other was saying that the tools were ok, because they believe that parsers themselves are ok, and the fact that they are a parser outweighs the fact that they are third party programs. Also this whole thread is about parsing via third party programs, not the act of parsing all together.

It is significant to differentiate them.
The act of parsing alone could never be any sort of cheating; only a fool would believe otherwise.
Even the tools/third party software isn't cheating; it's against the TOS, but SE chose to call it cheating (when under use as a third party software), even though realistically, it isn't. It's just what they and a few others here, chose to call it, to label it a negative thing.

It's very obvious that those calling it a cheat have no idea what they're babbling about.
Look at those responses, saying how parsing doesn't really give you an advantage, then followed by labeling it as cheating. If cheating is the act of gaining the upper hand or bypassing some sort of mechanic, and parsing is being labeled as cheating, then they should also admit that parsing provives an advantage. (Even though realistically, this is not true).
Yet, that's not what's happening. So many hypocrits.

Parsing doesn't give you an advantage per say. It does make it a lot easier than grabbing a calculator/pen/paper and adding it up yourself.
So basically, it just saves you time in one sense.
Another is identifying problems with your party members and aiding them. Particularly those in statics; where everyone has to hold their own weight. (Obviously Gorgomon is now going to throw a fit about how this is only used to harrass people or something stupid).

Now, if we were talking about teleport bots, that'd be a different story.