Ninja: Walk in shadow.

[JakzChurchill]

are you ready anything, like at all?

Positioning is not at all my arguement it's just a bonus point.

Sneak Attack does 500 Potency.

Trick Attack Does 400 Potency + damage +10% for 10 seconds.

This buff is for all party members.

A ninja can easily put out 120 additional potency in that 10 second window without auto attacks.

so now we have Sneak Attack 500 and Trick Attack 520 + party's additional dps in 10s

Therefor Trick Attack is the better DPS, no question.

[Viridiana]

EDIT: Viridiana, Doing some theory crafting in another thread found the optimal burst rotation after trick attack of mutilate --> Kassutsu --> Raiton --> Spinnning Edge --> Shadow Fang --> ?maybe a 5th depending on kraiton time? came at at about 1182 potency with a crit over the 10 seconds not including auto attacks, up to 1345 with a second spinning edge.

Yeah, I was basically trying to demonstrate that even if you're otherwise failing miserably and just mashing 1-2-3, TA still beats SA

If what I'm reading over in the MNK Temple Reborn thread is right (and I'm sure it is), 15% attack speed means you can easily fit 5 attacks into 10 seconds. Of course, their 10 second window starts with an oGCD instead of GCD ability, but they also have to ramp up to 15% over 3 GCDs, so I think that's a wash. As such, I'd expect that second one to actually be more like Mutilate (Assassinate)->Spinning->Fang->Spinning->Gust, or 1,500 potency, 1,650 after TA. . .not counting what has to be well over 350 from AA damage, bringing the total to over 2k worth of attacks. I mean, if Mutilate will run the duration, so would Fang. >_>

For the first chain. . .TA(Kassatsu)->Mutilate->Raiton->Spinning->Fang->Debuff drops? Yeah, hard to tell without hands-on and seeing how long Raiton takes to do and what it does to the GCD.

[ShaolinMike]

are you ready anything, like at all?

Positioning is not at all my arguement it's just a bonus point.

Sneak Attack does 500 Potency.

Trick Attack Does 400 Potency + damage +10% for 10 seconds.

This buff is for all party members.

A ninja can easily put out 120 additional potency in that 10 second window without auto attacks.

so now we have Sneak Attack 500 and Trick Attack 520 + party's additional dps in 10s

Therefor Trick Attack is the better DPS, no question.

Ahh major misstep on my part. Been reading patch notes on my iPhone so all the text is smaller. Totally skipped over the buff in trick attack. So, yeah, trick attack is better.

[JakzChurchill]

I'd expect that second one to actually be more like Mutilate (Assassinate)->Spinning->Fang->Spinning->Gust, or 1,500 potency, 1,650 after TA. . .not counting what has to be well over 350 from AA damage, bringing the total to over 2k worth of attacks. I mean, if Mutilate will run the duration, so would Fang. >_> For the first chain. . .TA(Kassatsu)->Mutilate->Raiton->Spinning->Fang->Debuff drops? Yeah, hard to tell without hands-on and seeing how long Raiton takes to do and what it does to the GCD.

Mutilate [396] ->Spinning [165] ->Fang [264] ->Spinning [165] ->Gust [220] Final Total 1210 [1610 with TA base potency]

Mutilate [396] ->Spinning [165] ->Gust [220] ->Aeoilian [352] ->Spinning [165] (Fang no buff after) Final Total 1298 [1698 with TA base potency]

Those two really are just personal preference, I'm a combo guy who likes big numbers so I'll most probably go the second rotation.

with Kraiton though

Mutilate [396] ->Kraiton [396!] ->Spin [165] ->Fang [240] = 1197 [1597]

Now if you can get in a 5th attack which is possible then you have 2 choices.

Above + Spinning Edge [165] = 1362 [1762]

-Fang + Gust [220] -> Aeoilian [352] = 1529 [1929] (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[Viridiana]

Mutilate [396] ->Spinning [165] ->Fang [264] ->Spinning [165] ->Gust [220] Final Total 1210 [1610 with TA base potency]

Err. . .if you're counting all of Mutilate ticks for 396, shouldn't you be counting all of Fang's ticks? 200 up front and a 240 dot makes 440 [484] potency. That's 1410 [1830] final total, I do believe.

Not gonna speculate much on the Raiton combo until I see live gameplay and how much time it takes. Just gonna point out your Fang numbers are wrong there, too.

[JakzChurchill]

Err. . .if you're counting all of Mutilate ticks for 396, shouldn't you be counting all of Fang's ticks? 200 up front and a 240 dot makes 440 [484] potency. That's 1410 [1830] final total, I do believe.

Not gonna speculate much on the Raiton combo until I see live gameplay and how much time it takes. Just gonna point out your Fang numbers are wrong there, too.

Okay you are right and i'm stupid. (too hype!)

Let me re - adjust everything.

Mutilate [396] ->Spinning [165] ->Fang [484] ->Spinning [165] ->Gust [220] Final Total 1430 [1830 with TA base potency]

Mutilate [396] ->Kraiton [396!] ->Spin [165] ->Fang [484] -> Spinning Edge [165] = 1341 [1841] 1606 [2006]

So Raiton if done well may be able to out put a bit more damage but that does seem like the best rotation. If you go into straight into Aeoilian Edge off this thats carrying it on with 320 potency so gonna be a nice burst of damage overall.

Edit: If development buffs are true, add 60 base potency to Shadow Fang, or 66 with TA.

So the best burst damage rotation on paper would be

Mutilate [396] ->Kraiton [396!] ->Spin [165] ->Fang [517] -> Spinning Edge [165] = 1474 [1874] 1639 [2039]

Thats over ~12 seconds not taking into account auto attacks and buffs.

where to place BfB and IR i would personally go

[Blood for Blood] --> [Suiton] --> [Internal Release] --> [Trick Attack] --> [Mutilate] --> [Kassutsu] --> [Raiton] --> [Spinning Edge] --> [Shadow Fang] --> [Spinning Edge] -

As trying to weave a buff into that 10 second window could cost you time, and blood for blood has a long enough duration to carry onto the end.

[ShaolinMike]

Okay you are right and i'm stupid. (too hype!)

Let me re - adjust everything.

Mutilate [396] ->Spinning [165] ->Fang [484] ->Spinning [165] ->Gust [220] Final Total 1430 [1830 with TA base potency]

So Raiton if done well may be able to out put a bit more damage but that does seem like the best rotation. If you go into straight into Aeoilian Edge off this thats carrying it on with 320 potency so gonna be a nice burst of damage overall.

This is the first time I've ever gotten involved in serious number crunching, so please forgive my errors. But does anyone have an idea of how this stacks up against the "standard" MNK rotation in terms of potency? Just curious.

[Leonus]

This is the first time I've ever gotten involved in serious number crunching, so please forgive my errors. But does anyone have an idea of how this stacks up against the "standard" MNK rotation in terms of potency? Just curious.

Don't have the numbers but, I believe in the end mnk will still come out on top, but not by much. It might be extremely close between the two in an actual combat situation.

[JakzChurchill]

Yeah without looking at the numbers and just by the skills themselves I'd say Ninja will be lower than Monk DPS wise, it has a few more Support abilities.

With that in mind though Ninja will have higher burst DPs like bard and don't be surprised to see them sailing at the top of the aggro charts at the start of a fight. (no way to lower emnity generated)

Hide --> Trick Attack --> Perfect Dodge --> Featherfoot might just be the opener :P

[ShaolinMike]

I actually like the idea of Ninja not soaring to the top of the DPS charts. Hopefully that will thin out the crowd and keep this from becoming Final Fantasy: Ninja Gaiden Expansion Pack.