Solo players can't get proper credit for hunts

[SarcasmMisser]

There is nothing stopping you from getting full credit if someone resets a mob, you just keep on hitting it. If a full group is hitting even a B rank from the moment its pulled you will always get max credit, all resetting does is buy time for more people to share and until I see concrete evidence that GMs will punish for this I see no reason to not do it.

If you want to go all law of the jungle with no cooperation, and believe its fair for people to just do their own thing and whatever they want then there's no reason why other players can't also do everything in their power to make sure they and their group gets credit. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you give no consideration to other groups then expect no consideration back.

You could also just advocate this to not be open world. Another example of wanting to have the best of both worlds, this is what open world means without any sort of claim or pop system.

[Vespar]

While I read many a post in the thread, one thing stands out. We asked for more open world content because we wanted things we could do SOLO. While I like the way hunts are intended to work, the mass hoards currently doing them, whether cooperatively or not, mean that the solo person doesnt get much of a reward. I realize that joining a party is a way to ensure you get the full rewards, but I believe it goes against why we wanted this kind of content in the first place.

This being said, I'll continue to party up with people but I do think SE should adjust it so that those who are solo can still get a decent reward as well. (Not everyone can form a party by the time an A rank is defeated - atleast not on my server ^^; )

[Regnum_Dei]

Kind of hard for a group of 4 or a solo player to get full credit when someone comes by to reset it for the 100+ people otw, because the rendering issues happens and the credit you would've gotten is now gone.

[blowfin]

Kind of hard for a group of 4 or a solo player to get full credit when someone comes by to reset it for the 100+ people otw, because the rendering issues happens and the credit you would've gotten is now gone.

Plus y'know, it dies in 5 seconds, and you don't wanna be that guy banging on the mob someone's trying to reset because you're probably going to get spammed with noxious tells and blacklisted by half the server.

[Regnum_Dei]

Plus y'know, it dies in 5 seconds, and you don't wanna be that guy banging on the mob someone's trying to reset because you're probably going to get spammed with noxious tells and blacklisted by half the server.

Already started to happen with me... lol, even got people saying I'm spying on them. Really?? I mean theres a spreadsheet, 100+ people zerging around, and happens to be 2 people who keep shouting the same phrase whenever a hunt dies... so its not hard to know where to go.

[indira]

Plus y'know, it dies in 5 seconds, and you don't wanna be that guy banging on the mob someone's trying to reset because you're probably going to get spammed with noxious tells and blacklisted by half the server.

thats just too bad for them. not like you need any friends in this game. either jump on it or get screwed out of your 5 secs. what do you expect from a easy mode game everyone wanted this now just accept it.
people said they dont have time to play a mmo now they give you zergs and you guys hate it.

[Kinseykinz]

Most people aren't asking to literally 'solo' hunts. I think there is a big misconception there. They are fully aware that most Marks require others to slay. They are however pointing out the disparity between teaming up with a couple others who are in the area vs. the LS's. The issue is okay, but really? How many people was this content intended for (100's of people to kill a bunny? really?) and do 'big' groups rights trump the rights of others....even if they didn't make the initial claim? That said, there are marks that CAN be soloed. The issue however is not should/can it be soloed. The issue is: Hunt LS's vs. those not in them. A large groups rights over a smaller groups rights.

I'll give 3 examples that happened to me personally this evening. However, before I do so, a couple things you should know.

1. I am not in a Hunt LS. Nor am I interested in being in one (I have had offers, it's simply not something I desire).
2. I lead a FC. Some members are in a Hunt LS. (on my server 'Alliance') Some are not.
3. I currently have 78 Seals...most from daily mob kills (I skip the FATE mobs alot because 'ain't nobody got time for that') Point: this obviously isn't a high priority in my in-game life right now, nor am I personally out their actively ninja'ing anything.

So early this evening, I was out gathering on btn, when I saw a mammet hat in the distance and thought 'huh....that's odd...wait! that's a mark I think' And changed to whm, got my chocobo out, and in FC chat did <t>. A member was like you can kill it, it's a B. So I engaged. NOT A SINGLE SOUL WAS AROUND. Furthermore, as I am not in a hunt LS/alliance etc...I owe them no favors. Heck I don't even know how to contact them if I wanted to. So I don't have to wait. I found it on my own, was the only one nearby, and it was something me and birdy could handle. I told FC mates, because I figured some might want a chance at it. No biggie. So for the next 2-3 minutes me and birdy were doing great soloing, having fun. A FC mate showed up, now we're duoing...still good fun. Then all of a sudden, 100's of people descend...more people that my screen can probably even see, and they zerg it to death (at least they didn't reset it on me). Afterwards, they don't send mean tells but they do mean emotes at me and we all move on. I asked one of my FC members who's a leader in the 'alliance' (hunt LS's on my server) hey, did you tell them about that mob? and he's like yeah...sorry. I was like, dude, it's a B rank....you really don't need to bring 100's of people to a B rank. I wasn't upset but it just seemed like overkill...AND it also seemed a little unfair as well, they don't share LS hunt location information in our FC chat...so it seemed a little backhanded to share FC intel in their LS. Still, nothing to get panties in a bind about and I got 5 seals for this.

A couple minutes later, I happened to be in a different zone (was doing my daily map that I had just gathered via said previous BTN nodes), when I see a shout about another B rank being up. I figured /meh why not. So i rode over. Again, 100's of people are showing up....for a bunny. I wait for them to pull. I get 1 seal for just me and my bird (again, I was in the area to do a solo map...no reason to be in a party). But no one's nose is bent out of shape b/c everyone followed 'the rules' . The shouter decided to wait and let people zerg it...his call, but he had every right to just pull the thing. I got 1 seal for this.


So skip ahead a couple hours. I get back from being afk and suddenly get flooded with angry tells about one of my FC members NOT in 'the alliance'. Who's 'pulling early'. I'm being told this could get my FC black listed....me personally blacklisted, reported etc. And I'm like 'woah. Is this person in your ls? (No). Are you a leader of said LS's? (No). You do understand people not in your 'alliance' don't actually know your rules right and therefore can't be held to them? (I mean seriously, that would be like me expecting my neighbor's FC to follow any rules my FC has...they don't even have access to our chat let alone rules). You can't 'pull early' You just pull. Once you do, the mob will either kill you or be killed. If you bite off more than you can chew=dead player and other ppl can clean up. If you win, well if they stood there and watched, that's their own fault.

Over 20 different people in over the span of the next 15-20 minutes pm'd me to complain about 'early pulls'
And again, I was not there, I was not in the zone, I am not in 'the alliance' the FC member to my knowledge was not in the alliance. They waited. Saw a bunch of people gathered. They are a tank, no one was pulling they pulled when there were obviously enough folk in the zone to slay said mob. This btw, is NOT soloing. They saw people gathering, and know how the game WILL give people credit if they do enough damage and simply pulled when enough were around fully intending that those also in the area also attacked the mob. It's no different than if you are the first to show up at a FATE. You engage, others show up. People get rewards based on their contributions/group contributions.

Now those in the alliance think 'yeah it's YOUR fault as a FC leader for not making sure people are waiting' But really, that's beyond my control. Meaning, I'm not going to make a rule that basically says 'hey FC members, you can't claim open world mobs unless you're in a Hunt FC...that we have no real affiliation with.' I mean yes, don't be jerks...but pulling a mob isn't being a jerk. If a player, any player sees a mob, and want's to attempt to kill it (whether it's the normal level 12ish turtle outside Uldah many a nooblet level 3 have face-planted against or a rank S) that's the individual players right. If an individual decides to wait for others to claim, that is also their right. But really, once you see a couple 100 people descend on a mob, I think it's fair for someone, anyone to fire a shot.). But I should not have to make my FC members follow made up rules other groups on my server decided upon....rules that also only benefit those in the groups that made said rules and undermine everyone else on the server.

People aren't waiting because they NEED to wait for others to successfully kill it....in very, very few cases would you need more than the average number of random folk that show up for an average random FATE to kill a Mark. ...Nor does it take any skill beyond what your average FATE crew should be able to handle. Furthermore, while the rewards you can buy with seals are nice, the intent behind them wasn't that you could fully upgrade your character in a matter of days simply by spamming these in a mass hoarde. The intent was a fun challenge that for the most part was happened upon... with maybe only the biggest marks requiring some actual /SH or networking. But seriously, an S mark is really no different than Odin...most people will go if they see he's up, and join parties, and work together....but people don't wait to pull him... or blacklist people because they didn't wait for the last of their LS mates to arrive before pulling. When they see enough people around, someone pulls, and all is good.

Look, if you don't want others to pull, then pull. If others pull while you're waiting on your team to arrive, and/or if a solo person pulls more than they can chew, you can let the get eaten. But again, the ONLY way you can pull it...is to be in the location to do so. If people aren't there by the time it's pulled, really, that's their problem. These marks were not designed with the intention that the entire server should descend upon each and everyone every day, every moment they spawn. Nor does any one group have any more 'right' to a mob than anyone else. Seriously, When enough people arrive to kill mark, it should be pulled. It's not like your Hunt LS is waiting for non-members to show up to also get in on the kill....so you're totally okay with being mean to folk who see it first/ pull it first before you all arrive, but see nothing wrong in pulling it yourselves when your team/LS is ready. You see the Double Standard right? Also, just because your LS/FC etc might have a rule like 'don't pull until Bob says so!'....doesn't mean every other person/LS/FC on the server has to follow the 'wait for Bob' rule. Nor did they do anything wrong if they don't wait for Bob.

So again, all this happened in ONE evening of gaming for me.

But anyway, below is the mindset the 'non Hunt LS' people are up against. (commonly referred to as soloists/small groups)

I don't even get what you mean. People don't receive invites to Hunt LS because they are all FULL. I believe that there are 1 or 2 new LS being started recently on top of the already existing ones, but I am not sure of their status. One of them is that FC-less player "Old Man" (that guys who spams shouts on DON'T ATTACK blah blah), I think he's the LS starter.

And LOL at your comment about everyone in hunt LS. I am sure that they are some bad eggs around. But your blanket insult to all of them places you on the same level. Rank Bs aren't that easy to reset anyways, they always get zerged and ninja'd by small groups. But I will reset a mark if I have to. FC/LS and my comrades first, I always take into account of the greater good of more people.

Last night I pulled a reset on an A and one of my FC mate were screwed because she forgot about Hellsclaw's reflect and died. But that also meant that a lot more groups will be able to get full credit due to my reset. TBH I don't really care about Bs, solo (if you think you can solo a B) or 1-2 party can go kill them if they want as long as they don't belong to a LS and be a leecher. But if it is an A rank and S rank.. I can't care about complaints from 1 or 2 players who doesn't get into a party (there are PF hunt parties too) or whatever reason - if a reset meant more people that will benefit than disadvantaged I will still do it if my comrades called for it.

1. So not everyone can be in a Hunt LS, because as you say, they are full. This implies there WILL be people who still want to participate in this content, but have to do it in smaller groups/with less manpower/have nothing to gain and only something to lose by waiting for your LS to arrive.
2. Rank B's aren't 'stolen' from your FC by solo players/small groups. They do NOT belong to you. All that happened was this small group saw it, and was like 'we can kill it!' Yay. As they are not in your LS, they owed you no warning, no wait, nothing at all. It's open world content, they saw it first, it is their claim.
3. Resetting IS a jerk move. You only reset it for your own gains to screw out the ones who found and initially claimed it. They were there first. Resetting to buy your friends/LS time isn't a fair or 'good-spirited' way to play.
4. The game already gives credit to players in a group easier than solo players for a kill, you do not need to punish them more. Many 'solo' players aren't upset that they don't get a FULL reward, they are upset that people are resetting mobs off them, NOT inviting them if they see it/sh it. Misleading them to other areas of the map, etc. Solo players and small parties, actually enjoy working with bigger groups and/or might have been in the area doing other activities/waiting on a DF queue what have you, and just don't need nor want to be bullied simply because they are not part of your 'LS' or party...that again, you admit is full and can't accept them even if they wanted in anyway.
5. Hunt LS' don't invite outsiders into their parties even if spots are available and someone asks.
6. Justifying bullying by saying 'well by bullying them, I was able to help x amount more of the people I have an elite status with' is STILL bullying.

[SarcasmMisser]

Point 2 and 3 are in conflict to each other, they don't belong to anyone including the person who found them they are open world without claim. If someone is able to reset it means they were there too and able to do that. Again the only person who can set rules is a GM, and until they step in it's anything goes. If someone manages to reset it until more get there then you just failed to ninja it, you tried to play anything goes and lost.

You're saying hunt LS can't set arbitrary rules but then set arbitrary rules for claiming in a no claim system.

[ispano]

Point 2 and 3 are in conflict to each other, they don't belong to anyone including the person who found them they are open world without claim. If someone is able to reset it means they were there too and able to do that. Again the only person who can set rules is a GM, and until they step in it's anything goes. If someone manages to reset it until more get there then you just failed to ninja it, you tried to play anything goes and lost.

You're saying hunt LS can't set arbitrary rules but then set arbitrary rules for claiming in a no claim system.

While there's been no specific rule or wording from SE, there is most certainly precedence on the matter of resetting. People had similar issues, for different reasons of course, with tanks resetting fate mobs. So now fate mobs cannot be provoked.

[SarcasmMisser]

Hunt mobs cannot be provoked either, you reset by fighting for first on the threat tables. Therefore it's actually quite easy to make sure people can't reset your mob by ensuring your threat lead is impossible to pass.

Again there's no rules and it's a double edged sword, and the only people who can make rules is GMs not hunt LS or forum posters with opinions. I need to see precedence on this particular matter, because it's not like its a reset to troll it's a reset to ensure you and your group can get credit too and the system is deliberately without claims.

Edit: if you want to test this it's very easy, just go to a hunt mob when everyone is waiting and use provoke. It will do 0 damage and the mob won't aggro (but many people might start attacking thinking it was, which makes provoke a legit troll). Provoke normally gives you the highest threat it has on someone +1, meaning if you normally use it on a non-aggro mob it will aggro but since it fully resists provoke it doesn't even get that +1.