Solo players can't get proper credit for hunts

[Kyana]

Solo players can't beat dungeons nor raids on their own. It's crazy!

But the dungeon will always be there. It won't vanish if you don't get a party together in less than 60 seconds and enter it.


I'm not happy with the hunt system either.
So far, I've seen Naul once out of ~20 times and was able to get 1 hit in (not enough to finish the weekly it seems), and duoed the rank B in Central Shroud.

What I like about the hunts is the idea of spawn conditions.
I think it would be better if they changed A and B rank to actual group content for 4 and 8 players.
You get the information about the area where the NM can be found and a random hint how to spawn it.
Then your group has to figure out how to spawn it and beat the NM.
Make locating and attracting the NM the main activity of hunts, and not waiting and zerging.

[ispano]

Hunt mobs cannot be provoked either, you reset by fighting for first on the threat tables. Therefore it's actually quite easy to make sure people can't reset your mob by ensuring your threat lead is impossible to pass.

Again there's no rules and it's a double edged sword, and the only people who can make rules is GMs not hunt LS or forum posters with opinions. I need to see precedence on this particular matter, because it's not like its a reset to troll it's a reset to ensure you and your group can get credit too and the system is deliberately without claims.

Yeah they can. I have done it. I've seen others do it. not sure where people get the idea that you can't. Especially when you start a fight and literally 30 seconds later a warrior comes by and instantly takes it away. He doesn't beat on it, he provokes and it runs off to him. Which is why I save my provoke to take it back.

[Mcshiggs]

because it's not like its a reset to troll it's a reset to ensure you and your group can get credit too and the system is deliberately without claims.

It is harassment to reset it so that your group has time to get there, even if it's not meant to hurt someone else, you are purposely diminishing their reward so that your group can benefit, I have talked this over with a couple different GMs. They have to be able to prove that you are resetting it, and not just running out so you can live or something, so it really becomes harassment as soon as something like the word reset shows up in your chat log.

[SarcasmMisser]

Only a GM gets to decide if it's harassment, I really don't care what you can lawyer up. Proof is needed.

[Ooshima]

I'm not talking about an invite to a hunt LS, I'm talking about in invite to a party that's sitting the resetting the rank B for minutes on end. It's rude, plain and simple, to do that and not include the solo players who are standing there being screwed.

Well if shells don't want to appear as if they're a giant douche running around the map, they need to stop their members acting like that, plain and simple. Unfortunately the actions of the minority are the most visible, and they reflect poorly upon the shells in general.

You understand that I can't control what you do right? If so, what makes you think that it is easy to control everyone on LS? How does LS leaders stay online to cover the game 24/7 and monitor every member's behavior? Unlike FCs which you can tell which chap belongs to which FC and who is the leader which you may want to feedback to, LS does not have this feature where you can lodge complaint to the LS leaders. FYI LS leaders have also been trying to prune out bad players in their LS but they could only do so much.

Also, you mentioned the greater "good of the people" and all your "comrades". Sounds an awful lot like communism.

Communism? LOL - by standards of Democracy I am on the same side. Because more people wanted a share of the mark and voted for it to reset, and I reset it as voted by the majority. "Communism"/"Democracy" talk on this matter.. IDK, no relevance.

To be fair, SE cannot satisfy everyone. SE knows that, they always try to accommodate. It's true in life and such, there isn't always a perfect solution. And so is resetting the mark if need be, because it satisfy the need of more people.

And for all others who have quoted and replied me, SarcasmMisser have already said what I wanted to:

There is nothing stopping you from getting full credit if someone resets a mob, you just keep on hitting it. If a full group is hitting even a B rank from the moment its pulled you will always get max credit, all resetting does is buy time for more people to share and until I see concrete evidence that GMs will punish for this I see no reason to not do it.

If you want to go all law of the jungle with no cooperation, and believe its fair for people to just do their own thing and whatever they want then there's no reason why other players can't also do everything in their power to make sure they and their group gets credit. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you give no consideration to other groups then expect no consideration back.

Point 2 and 3 are in conflict to each other, they don't belong to anyone including the person who found them they are open world without claim. If someone is able to reset it means they were there too and able to do that. Again the only person who can set rules is a GM, and until they step in it's anything goes. If someone manages to reset it until more get there then you just failed to ninja it, you tried to play anything goes and lost.

You're saying hunt LS can't set arbitrary rules but then set arbitrary rules for claiming in a no claim system.

And one last thing about resetting mob: if you are there THAT early or even first to be there, then SarcasmMisser also said something:

Hunt mobs cannot be provoked either, you reset by fighting for first on the threat tables. Therefore it's actually quite easy to make sure people can't reset your mob by ensuring your threat lead is impossible to pass.

Maybe instead of complaining, think about how poorly you hold your hate? How could you lose hate to someone who came later like 75% HP left and STILL able to pull aggro from your party's tank WITHOUT provoke?

My WAR is not even ilvl100 yet and I could rip of existing hate with 1-2 Butcher's Block. That says a lot. It's not my fault that a late comer like me could rip off hate from you, watch your own hate and make it impossible to rip and there you can ensure that it is not being pulled and reset.

[Nicobo]

IMO, the marks should have extremely low HP, they should decrease the HP but not increase,
as it can prevent resetting, players/parties who attacked first most likely will kill them by 1 hit and got max seals,
it will work like claiming the marks, no one will force anyone to wait as there will be no reason to wait then.

When SE decided to increase marks' HP for those reasons,
I think why not just change the mark to NPC, once pull, it will stay there for n minutes,
an system message with <t> and <pos> will be announced to the whole server,
so everyone can come and talk to it then get the seals, no drama. ^^;

[Ooshima]

Yeah they can. I have done it. I've seen others do it. not sure where people get the idea that you can't. Especially when you start a fight and literally 30 seconds later a warrior comes by and instantly takes it away. He doesn't beat on it, he provokes and it runs off to him. Which is why I save my provoke to take it back.

Nope you can't. Your threat is probably close with the other tanks.

I have already done numerous resets and thus I know provoke doesn't work on marks. Like he already said, you can test it out by using a provoke on a mark when the mark is not engaged yet. The mark will not engage you like normal mobs do. The "existing threat +1" does not apply to marks.

[SarcasmMisser]

People get the idea that provoke doesn't works by actually looking at the mob. They get threat from follow up attacks and don't even see that provoke has fully resisted under it.

[blowfin]

Maybe instead of complaining, think about how poorly you hold your hate? How could you lose hate to someone who came later like 75% HP left and STILL able to pull aggro from your party's tank WITHOUT provoke?

My WAR is not even ilvl100 yet and I could rip of existing hate with 1-2 Butcher's Block. That says a lot. It's not my fault that a late comer like me could rip off hate from you, watch your own hate and make it impossible to rip and there you can ensure that it is being pulled and reset.

Ooshima, I thought you were better than insulting players to try get your points across. Mistake of judgement there, my bad.

Do you know why I haven't tried to hold hate on one of these while it's being reset? I'll likely get abused by countless vapid idiots and blacklisted by a bunch of people. Or have you not had that experience, or seen it happen yet? Or are you just that ignorant that you don't think it's a problem?

LS owners really do need to take responsibility for the above kind of scenario, especially if it's going to be suggested as something for solo players to maxamise their seals. Either that or LS leaders could not recruit so many random boneheads. However, I don't expect that to change any time soon with shells clamoring to keep membership (and by extension seal acquisition) as high as possible.

[Ooshima]

Ooshima, I thought you were better than insulting players to try get your points across. Mistake of judgement there, my bad.

Do you know why I haven't tried to hold hate on one of these while it's being reset? I'll likely get abused by countless vapid idiots and blacklisted by a bunch of people. Or have you not had that experience, or seen it happen yet? Or are you just that ignorant that you don't think it's a problem?

LS owners really do need to take responsibility for the above kind of scenario, especially if it's going to be suggested as something for solo players to maxamise their seals. Either that or LS leaders could not recruit so many random boneheads. However, I don't expect that to change any time soon with shells clamoring to keep membership (and by extension seal acquisition) as high as possible.

How is that an insult. I'm just stating a fact, a fact that players are losing hate when they have much time lead to build an impassible hate. If this has happened, it is a point for the tank to self-review. Whilst tanking is not my main job, at any point where I am the engaging tank on a single target and if I lost it I'd feel embarrassed about it. That's why whole point. It is just embarrassing if I found the mob, engaged it, and 10-20s later another tank came in and pulled it off me. I wouldn't even have the cheek to cry about it that I lost the mob...

TBH I am not particularly sure about Tonberry server either, on the issue of blacklists. Of course I have seen numerous shouts about "blist that player!", but what really happened? Has anyone who actually got blisted step out here and share something? I may actually be ignorant to a degree as I prefer to hunt with my own FC mates and friends. LS are there for me to pick up info and share finds, I'm not actively participating in organization or any such matters.

A lot of those shouts on early pullers are false accusations and proven to be untrue when check against the battle log. Personally I think most of these are just empty threats. Most of them just made lots of initial noise and moved on with their marks hunting. I do not think that players who does early pulls will get blisted by hundreds of players - probably only a handful, like less than 10 (those really extreme players?).

Why do I think so? Because it is simply ridiculous, if you think of it rationally. I think the blist crap have died down quite a bit in Tonberry - earlier on when such shouts were more rampant, some of us even ridiculed our own LS leaders that their blist would soon max out if they have to do it that way. And honestly, the few names that have been shouted to be blisted, I still see them hunting happily with full teams and what not. If you think that you will be blisted by almost the whole server and totally ostracized with daily insane bullies... I think you are over thinking. These chaps would just move on with their hunts for their Allied Seals than wasting time sending stupid insulting tells and missed out on A marks or whatnot.

In any case, like I said, LS does clean up players. I have seen them doing so. They are not a bunch of barbarians, they too wanted to keep things civil and cooperative. However like I said, as there is no current way of directly identifying which player belongs to which LS, there is no direct way to feedback to the LS like you could to the FC leader and do something about it.