Protesting Frontlines

[Yoohre_WildRiver]

im ok with ilvl sync, but Morale gear should be taken into account, what if i want to do frontlines and i dont like arenas? why would i grind marks on frontlines to buy pvp gear that is only usable on arenas . if i dont like arenas i end up wasting inventory space :s and time

[Kantei]

Ehh more random insults and more random crap that has nothing to do with anything lol. I swear most of these posts seem like they are written in crayon.

If gear is equal AP differences are minimal, plain and simple.

Last nights set of friendlies:
Had a rank 3 healer, completely stomping in a rank 27 healer.
50 cap friendlies: 6/16/2014
Team A: Tank 33, Melee 27, ranged 19, healer 3
Team B: Tank 27, Melee 26, ranged 17, Healer 27.

The 27 healer for team B, usually plays SMN. Team A's was new to the shell and PvP. The brand new healer, stamped the other team in after a little coaching. All they needed to know, is what skills to use when O.o.

Again, AP accounts for very little if the gear is even. Over 2 months of testing this. Stop making up supposed situations that you are testing with people with mismatched gear O.o

And to Rawk, be sure about what you are saying. My event does not win trade, nor create weak players. You have the wrong idea.

I heard all of balmung win trades, many players on my server fled yours to get away from it. You don't see me spreading rumors about you do you? No I wouldn't do something as stupid as share my opinion without knowing the facts O.o

Sad sad community we have on this website when it's easier to have a conversation on gamefaqs or red dit lol.

[Jon_00]

If you want to show off and be the best, do the arena style PvP that's already there. I tried PvP and got stomped on. I've no idea whether or not I lacked skill or gear, I just died constantly.

Frontlines however appears to level the playing field which sounds good to me!

[Menriq]

snip

How long do the matches generally last?

[Nalien]

Again, AP accounts for very little if the gear is even.

And again, that is still an advantage. One player has an advantage over another because of superior/faster skills, it doesn't matter how much of an advantage it is, what matters is that it is there. Why is it OK to allow this advantage, but any suggestion for Morale is instantly shot down just because it's Morale? I've even suggested taking the stats traits away from AP and making Morale equivalent to it, that is literally no difference from a non-miss matched gear but miss-matched AP scenario, but it's wrong because Morale?

The fact that, unless they add new crafted Morale gear, you earn Morale alongside earning AP through Ranking up, makes the difference even more inane in my eyes. Heck, if everyone is getting Morale gear for the same difference AP provides, then there is no miss-match of gear; everyone is in the same uniform.

I'm sorry if I'm coming off as insulting, I'm really not trying to, but it just seems incredibly hypocritical to damn one advantage, no matter what changes are proposed, and OK another under the guise of having a level playing field. There is already the possibility that they'll raise the cap to i90, in which case that just further miss-matches gear anyway; Wolfram/Cashmere/etc. get the advantage of penta melds over anything else. At least with gear and Morale running parallel to the AP bonus you can provide everyone with a standard uniform to PvP in, almost completely removing any gear miss-matches. The only issue preventing that is how much of a grind obtaining PvP gear is, but again, that's something I've suggested be addressed, which is apparently appalling because we simply shouldn't have any difference from gear, while being OK with any difference from Rank. Despite the fact Rank and PvP gear run parallel to each other already.

[Rawk]

Kantei, I never called you a win-trader. Please re-read my post, I said "..and its borderline win-trading" while referring to friendlies. That's because I think it's borderline win-trading. Not that you're blatantly win-trading.

Wow tell us how you really feel! God forbid someone try to make a game FUN, it might be the hallmark of the destruction of the entire internet e-peen contests!

"fun" was in quotation marks for a reason, friendlies aren't fun nor easy environment for new players. It's confusing, and annoying to say "oh your team lost X times, must not be fair, let's mix this up"

I'm on the side where i think gear should absolutely matter for PvP, all types of pvp. They basically made this huge tease of a awesome new pvp mode, and all this new pvp gear, and then disallowed it's use in Frontlines? That's the issue. That's what's upsetting.

[Kantei]

Arguing for morale and against AP is also hypocritical. Even if you are just using it as an example lol.

I'm not siding with for morale or against morale.

I saw another player say AP accounts for little, minor advantages. I am just confirming that claim. With two months of testing it to back up that claim.

The other thing, my LS tripled in size after we started making ilvl caps. And many people joined the public PvP scene after that. 37 of my members got to rank 20 in two weeks after giving ilvl capped PvP a try. Another 120 members got between 1-20 in a month. In pug and private PvP.

My point is, in ilvl cap we had time to explain the flow of combat, what they were doing wrong, what they should be doing, and the current metas of PvP, and how to negate them.

Taking away gear melting gave them the time to work out the kinks and gain a bit of muscle memory for the class.

After people got a taste of our event, they invited friends, and our event really started taking off.

My overall point is, ilvl PvP got a bunch of new blood into PvP on my server. And I can easily see people inviting their friends to a PvP mode that has an ilvl cap, and instant ques. Much like my event that has instant ques and an ilvl cap.

All in all, my only point is this a good thing for PvP. And I'm willing to give up 6 months worth of work for a better rule set than featured in Wolves Den. I rather have fun beating people with team work and skill versus some status symbol I earned.

And yeah rawk, I am a bit sensitive and tired of that subject xD. Sorry. I should post the new friendlies rule set, combined three old modifiers to replace balance matches, but positive/helpful threads get ignored on these forums :P

[Nalien]

Arguing for morale and against AP is also hypocritical. Even if you are just using it as an example lol.

I have never been arguing against AP, I said as much earlier. Stop mistaking my intent.

It is hypocritical to be OK with one advantage and damn another, solely because it provides an advantage. It is not hypocritical to point out the hypocrisy in such statements and provide reasoning for why it is hypocritical.

I mean seriously, if you lose the AP stats traits, and Morale is changed to effectively do the same thing... Then what difference is there? You rank up and get AP to spend, as well as Morale which is effectively just an old AP boost. People are fine with the AP boosts as it stands, so why would they then be against such a change to Morale? The developers can level players Morale with a buff, you can obtain Morale from Retainer Ventures if you're lucky, they can adjust Wolf Mark rewards to make Morale easier to obtain. They can do all these things which would make for a more level playing field while keeping Morale, but everyone seems to be against such suggestions, simply because it's Morale.

It's honestly baffling.

I completely agree with you when it comes to equalizing iLvs, that's actually why I like Morale (notice I've not been against the i80 cap). With Morale, everyone in PvP has a uniform that is exactly the same, that's the point of Morale in my opinion. They can balance it so it isn't a significant difference when you first enter, but once you've been in PvP for a while, you all get Morale gear and all wear it because it's PvP gear; everyone ends up in the same gear, with literally no difference.

[Rawk]

I think the point is that if they're removing morale to remove the advantage, why not remove every possible advantage there is, including AP (Regardless of how much the advantage gives).

Going back to my original statement, I might as well queue naked. It's silly.

[Kantei]

Yeah that is why I said you used it as an example. Either way the advantage provided is minimal.

They can keep morale in, I'm decently geared.

They can take it out, prefer this to make it more about teamwork versus math.

Doesn't really matter to me But the current rule set will lead to the expansion of PvP. And most will prefer it even if they don't understand it at first.

Taking out Morale and leaving in AP still leaves battles balanced. And it takes out gear melting, which leads boring matches.

Everything else is a non-issue for me. Taking morale is 95% of the issue, with AP being barely worth mentioning.

They can change AP to max out everything, and rake away ranks.

That would be fine with me. That's the funny thing about MMO players, they like to compete with each other by playing dress up over actually fighting each other.

The new rules make it less about dress up and more about fighting O.o. I'm not here to get involved in a conversation about AP and morale being an issue. I'm here to tell you the model they chose works O.o.

It takes gear melting out of it, and allows people to learn. Now SE has to figure out how to deal with the other major problem with attracting PvPers, our toxic community :x