Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Yurihyuga]

snip

Actually you can don't forget that all MMO's have some mechanics to a degree that requires certain characters to have certain skills. I know doing this on the forums can have a negative effect take the diabolos fight in FFXI for example, RDM/DRK was a popular choice for stun as when he enrages a RDM would then use his 2hr and chainspell stun and certain attacks need to be dealt with or its a wipe. You can't escape having some mechanics but like you already said it should not be a script ESPECIALLY not an unforgiving one.

[Genz]

I totally agree with the premise : the end-game is so much focused on gimmicks that everything else become anecdotal. More like a HD Pong than a RPG.

~

During the Nagoya Producer Letter Live, Yoshi-P said “the fights are scripted because if we made the moves random and, say, Titan uses weight of the land 4 times in a row or something that'd be unfair, right?”

Huh... there is a world between 100% scripted and 100% random.
In v1, Ifrit's behaviour was globally random, but he couldn't use the same attack twice in a row. Here, problem solved. Can't he remember even that?

[Icarian]

Randomness wouldn't simply work in a game like this, if they added went away with scripted patterns they'd have to forgo skills that are able to kill you if you get hit, meaning it would make content pretty much trivial to any static group, else it would make absolutely frustrating, if some people can't deal with mechanics even if they know when they're coming, them being random would make the problem x100 worse and the game would be based around luck... unless they make the bosses way less powerful and not able to kill you if you do a mistake.

Intricate bosses and randomness can't go together, you'd end up with either very easy bosses or luck based frustratingly ones.

[Raenryong]

I think Turn 7 is a good example of a combination of mechanics with some degree of randomness, while minimising the chance of RNG screwing you over.

[Yurihyuga]

snip

I can guarantee you this game won't last if they keep this up. I for one have already made a decision that if when expansion comes out and its more of the same shit, I quit. I don't talk for everyone but I am pretty sure a lot of people won't be far behind. The expansion will be what defines this game and its direction.

[Ooshima]

I can agree to your points but then we have to consider what is also fun. Wouldn't you have more fun having to make decisions on the go or those decisions being made for you by a mechanic driven system? This is the defining question most people don't watch videos and depend on luck to get past a script that can be read which has a rippling effect through the community.

I remain my stand that while the idea is good and I'd love to try it (in fact the older FF single player RPGs have their bosses uses skills at random) but it is really a higher level skill IMO. How does one who can't handle instructions like a script handle randomness and bad RNG (image 4 hard hitting raid wide moves in a row, now you DO need luck to get past this if it happens).

[Garlyle]

Thing about the OP... to be fair, we have a lot of places like that.

Ever been to Brayflox HM? (What a stupid question, of course you have, almost everyone has). Ever been to Brayflox HM with a party whose iLvls are only ~60-65? Probably not. Let me tell you, it's a drastically different experience. Of the 2.2 dungeons, Brayflox HM is easily the hardest when 'barely geared'. However, go in with a higher item level party though and the entire thing loses any sense of difficulty whatsoever. You can ignore 90% of the details in each boss fight, as they just become "Well, we can just DPS race this shit".

And there really isn't anything wrong with this, but both sides of the coin need to exist. Because execution-heavy shit like Extreme Primals are hell, but they are a kind of hell I really, really appreciate - there is no "oh, you just beat it 'cause you got thirty levels overgeared when you went in." No, you beat it because you beat it, on its own terms. Not every player is going to like it. That's fine. Not every player likes housing, that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.

[Sylkis]

This is a very good blog post. I would thank the original poster (and you) but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a feedback/comment section on the blog.

I liked the "Team rope jumping" analogy, so I will continue to use it here.

The boss is rotating the jump rope and every boss does it differently. Gear, along with some knowledge of tanking, healing and DPSing is only a minimum requirement to enter the rope jump game. If someone is said to be a good player, it means that they can get past every rope that comes because they have memorised the pattern for each boss, but not necessarily good at their job.

You may be good at high jumps, long jumps or whatever jumps but they are not recognised because being able to jump is only a minimum requirement and doing "good jumps" simply count as a pass. The outcome of a person jumping can only be a pass or fail. At the current endgame, each player is given say 10 jumps and the only way to pass is for the whole team to get 80/80 jumps. If anyone fails a jump, the rope stops completely its a wipe. The current endgame requires perfection of getting past the rope rather than having players excel at jumping (their job).

Now, what if instead the outcome of a jump is not just 1 or 0 (pass/fail), but can be anything depending on how well the person jumps? As the OP has noted, Turn 4 is an example of this. A good tank will be able to mitigate more damage and a healer heal more efficiently, allowing them to score more than 1 for doing a fancy jump. What if someone is better at high jumps than long jumps? In Turn 8 you can choose what kind of jumps you want to do (to some extent). In addition, your gear will increase the score you get for a jump.

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So what if you still don't make the required score to pass?

The encounter is broken into multiple phases and the score is evaluated at the end of each phase. In the current system, if someone fails a jump then the rope stops. What should happen is that the rope continues, and even if you don't make the required score you should be able to enter the next phase. In the next phase, you will be required to get a higher score than normal. If you have failed constantly in the previous phases then it will be impossible achieve the required score for the last phase. Again, this is shown in Turn 4 where if you did not do well, instead of wiping, the next wave is brought down and you still have a chance to clear (through the use of LB or whatever).

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How to implement this?

-Change instant wipes as a result of a failed DPS check or a failed "rope jump" by a single person to some sort of resource drain or detrimental effect for the party, and/or buff for the boss
--Examples
--If Titan heart is not broken, then empty everyone's MP and the limit bar
--Rot should kill the one person who had it only and buff the boss etc

-Change unrecoverable deaths so that it is possible to get back into the game
--Examples
--If you fall of the edge in titan/leviathan, you have to take time to climb/swim back up (which may cause a failed DPS check and make everyone's job harder)
--If you have weakness then you might not be able to survive. Change it so that weakness reduces your capability to do your job well rather than reduce HP.


Make it only possible to come back if members excel at their job (e.g. solo heal/tank for a while).


Additional:

OP doesn't want to make the game easier, but more forgiving (which doesn't mean it will be easier).

Take T6 and T7 for example.
If someone gets eaten by mistake, it is not an instant wipe. Its not an instant wipe at a certain amount of stacks either, it depends on your skill and gear.
If someone accidentally sends out voice in the wrong direction and gets a person or two, its not an instant wipe. If it's a healer(s), the tank just has to hold it out for 30 seconds. If it's a melee DPS, just move the boss away. If it's the offtank and adds are coming, the party just has to stop attacking for a while. If someone is stoned where they are and gets shriek, everyone needs to run to the hiding spot (This happened to our party once and we actually made it through in the end).

Making a mistake makes the fight harder instead of impossible, and this is balanced by the ease of making the mistake. It's also not always easy to be able to recover, and it gives a chance for good players to shine. I think this is what OP wants.

[Icarian]

I can guarantee you this game won't last if they keep this up. I for one have already made a decision that if when expansion comes out and its more of the same shit, I quit. I don't talk for everyone but I am pretty sure a lot of people won't be far behind. The expansion will be what defines this game and its direction.

While that can be true, the same thing could be said if they do make everything faceroll like XI or some other games, you can't make everyone happy.

I'd love some randomness here and there, but you can't really have truly challenging fights if it based on luck rather than skill, you couldn't have stuff like T8's allagan field for example, because it would be complete luck whether you can clear it or die instantly, they'd have to make stuff hit for way less or make the mechanics simpler, which would turn that combat into a simple dummy tank and spank.

[KiraVaela]

No.

I enjoy the game the way it is. I enjoy exactly what others seem to dislike. This is why I play FFXIV and not WoW. Stop trying to change this game according to your liking and go play something else if this does not fit you.