Making Discipline of Magic play make Mages

[Ark_mage2]

There has been a lot of talk about class uniqueness and what exactly it means. I think one of the areas in most need of changes are the Discipline of Magic classes. The distribution of spells among the classes seems to be the aspect that most people are focusing on, and while I think that is a very big deal, something I haven't heard mentioned is the basic attacks that CON and THM have. Spirit Dart and Phantom dart essentially break the classes. Both attacks require no MP and deal an unreasonably high amount of damage. Personally I have found that I mostly just spam these basic attacks when fighting enemies, with a few spells and buffs/debuffs thrown in. One of the reasons I always loved playing as a Mage class in the past was their focus on a variety of spells that catered themselves to different enemies and different challenges. The current system makes Mages play the same as DoW classes for the most part. I would suggest replacing them with a basic "attack" ability that deals damage more in proportion with their strength, meaning very little. With the newly regenerating MP Mages have more than enough MP to spend on a variety of spells in battle, and they should use it.

Of course I could be wrong, and I am really interested to hear what everyone thinks?

[Frebaut]

I have my THM to 25 and i Play it the way i play my 45 PUG. To me i feel like all classes play the same. Yes i know THM and CON can AoE heal and ATT. But all classes can AoE att. The only thing that makes the mages needed in a party are their AoE heals and thats it. I use my PUG ws on my THM i rarely do any infeebling spells because i kill the mob way to fast. I have even sat back as Pug in some fights and healed when we didin't have a healer. With the endles supply of MP any class can heal.

SE has a lot of tweaking to do to make the classes more unique. I never understood why it doesn't cost more points to equip Actions from other classes. That would make it so your very picky on what Actions you would want.

[Heartfire]

I have to agree. It bothers me a little that I have a cudgel and it is used like a wand. (For the record, I played a White Mage in XI).

But here is something interesting, and I want to know what you think, Ark. The way the system is now, we have mostly instant-cast spells, and most of the spells in the game aren't worth casting. I sort of miss the way that mages were played in their previous, successful MMO. I miss Black Mages taking their time to cast magic, and the nessecity of strategy, knowing when to cast a spell.

For example, Gravity is almost worthless to me. I can't kite the mob around, because I'm constantly locked on / active mode. I really felt like one of the unique characteristics of a mage was that they were a part of the battle, without being in the front line. It really is frustrating that I have to pull out my magical club that I can't beat things in the face with, before I can cast a heal.

Obviously, with Active/Passive mode as it is, it would be broken to allow mages to cast without getting into Active mode / locking on to the target. As if we could stay in passive mode, our MP would automatically regenerate. But I honestly feel that, (aside from our spells being semi-worthless, as I only cast heals when in group, and just spirit dart/punishing barbs when soloing), the distinction between Mage and Melee starts with the active/passive system.

Thoughts? Or am I just crazy?

Also, can we make buffs last longer than 3-4 minutes? Please? I hate that I cast them almost every single fight....

[Alcide]

o.O

I stopped using Spirit/Phantom Dart at rank 5.
You don't even need it to gather TP once you get Syphon TP...

This is just like the auto attack feature: don't blame the devs if you're choosing to play in the dumbest way.

[Ark_mage2]

o.O

I stopped using Spirit/Phantom Dart at rank 5.
You don't even need it to gather TP once you get Syphon TP...

This is just like the auto attack feature: don't blame the devs if you're choosing to play in the dumbest way.

I agree with you, ideally neither abilities should be part of how the classes play, and a lot of players end up playing "correctly". My point was only that the abilities themselves don't really make sense in the context of the class and the current MP system.

The auto attack debate is another issue entirely. But class uniqueness is an issue the developers themselves have raised, so it is more than just an illusion in the minds of the players.


Heartfire, you bring up an interesting problem. I am not sure how to fix this and keep the current Active/Passive dichotomy. I don't think adding a third intermediary mode would solve anything. Possibly something like there being a cool down after casting a spell from passive mode before MP begins regenerating again?

[Kiara]

Hi Ark,

Good question. I'd say that many Mages use Spirit / Phantom Dart also because of how broken Mage *Spells* are. I think you've noticed how often Conjurer or Thaumaturge Spells are Resisted by monsters in the game. They miss, are partially resisted or fully resisted so often, and even when they hit (after a decent casting time (compared to Weaponskills instant release)), they do poor-to-average damage, with spikes of great damage once in a while.

Add to that the weird situation where your Tier 1 spells (Fire 1, Blizzard 1, etc.) can sometimes do the same damage or more than a Tier 2 spell at times, and Ancient Magic that's totally broken, and you can see why some people would rather spam Spirit Dart instead. (not counting Shadowsear, which is great. )

If Yoshida-san and his team fix Mage spells to do more damage (taking into account a casting time, use of MP, etc.), get resisted less often, I think you'd naturally get more players using Spells over Spirit/Phantom Dart.

[YUGON]

The whole game need to be washed, and they are doing it.

Maybe Mages are the ones that need more changes.

Plus I think that the MP regeneration is too much. Even the HP regeneration is so much. Anyone can be fully healed in less thatn 1 min after beating a mob.

I think a /rest command may be better, and HP and MP would only be regenerated with that, and in SUPER LOWER RATE than now.

[Suzaku]

Plus I think that the MP regeneration is too much. Even the HP regeneration is so much. Anyone can be fully healed in less thatn 1 min after beating a mob.

I think a /rest command may be better, and HP and MP would only be regenerated with that, and in SUPER LOWER RATE than now.

Not if you want to have mobile parties. If you want to encourage mobile parties instead of static camps, which SE does here, you need to have HP and MP regenerate on the move, and also at a relatively decent rate. Even if you consider that rate to be too fast now, it certainly shouldn't be super slow.

[YUGON]

Ok, let's say that when SE gets rid of Surplus (and I hope it will), there may be Mobile parties. Or just when doing levequest. As you said, you need a constant HP regeneration, and I agree.

But even with that, the rate is too high. Plus the mp regeneration makes some abilities useless.
I had not the chance to start with a mage job, but I usually play with Duo with a mage friend and well... Prior the mp regeneration, she used Tranquility when she had it UP, and she had to "administrate" a little the MP. but now? With the mp regeneration how it is right now, mages can do Nukes orgies.

When SE repairs the broken spells, no one will stop mages.

Mages will bring Chaos to eorzea. <-- Just Kdding, but mp regeneration is waaaay to high. I think at least the /rst command my be used for MP.