Plan to remove benefit for failing leves?

[Kallera]

I'm with the OP On this one though.

Any system that presents segregation in the game should be fixed. Right now there is a huge segregation of players who fail leves, and those who refuse too.

I think the easiest fix for this would be to give bonus SP for the actual completetion of the leve based on (level - range under or over optimal level x (2 x Difficulty) + time left (Seconds) + some other funky math)

So a rank 40 leve being done by rank 40 at 5 stars with 15 minutes left nets a bonus of 13000 ish SP

Hopefully to be divided among ther party.

I think they need to make the exp bonus adjusted so that it is shared after the leve is completed. Until then, leve mobs should normal or reduced exp. A completed leve would be something to strive for for the exp, a lot like the guild task board.

[AlexiaKidd]

I wouldn't mind them taking out the ability to fail BUT they must do more to the leves than just that. They need to balance the SP rewards and make it so you have the full selection of leve's available every reset so if you are with a group you can all pick up the same ones.

If they just moved SP to be given on completion without doing any further adjustments it would pretty much kill the leve system dead for a lot of people.

I came up with these idea's a while ago and I think it would go some way to helping the leve situation out:

Guildleves, the content you love to hate

So I have been thinking of how SE could improve Guildleves and solve many of the issues with them ie. abandoning them, only picking certain ones, certain camps over-crowded and have come up with a few idea's.

First though I believe the original plan for Guildleves as we have them now was that it was supposed to be more casual/quick content so that you could login and grab some leves and go do them. The main problem is that they are pretty much the only content, so everyone is doing them as they have nothing else to do. Also certain Leve's are better than others in regards to SP/EXP gained so this also make Leve Abandoning to keep those certain Leve's more desirable.

What could work?

My first fix would be to allow all 9 Leve's to be available for selection every reset for every camp. This would allow people to freely choose the Leve's they wish to do so if they are in a group they can make sure they get the same ones to link if they wish.

Next would be to change the way Leve SP/EXP is accumulated. For this maybe it would be better to give a lump sum of SP/EXP at the end of the Leve upon completion and remove the SP/EXP gained from the mobs killed. This would have to be scaled in different ways though.

For example all Rank 20 Leves could give a base 5000 SP upon completion, Rank 30 gave 10,000, Rank 40 15,000 and so on. That would be the base, then you could add a multiplier for difficulty with the number of stars the Leve was completed on. Maybe 5% per star so if 10,000 was the base and you completed it on 5 stars you would get 15,000 SP/EXP. Then you can add other modifiers like completion time, your rank vs. leve difficulty and so on. Also if they were to give static SP then they would have to probably have a minimum rank restriction in place to stop Rank 1's tagging along on R40 Leve's.

Also be a bit more creative with the rewards, a lot of people have a lot of gill so it is not so great a reward any more. Maybe try rewards like 30 Guardians Aspect or 15 Anima as a reward something like that to get people tempted to try different Leves.



Possible Result

By doing these few things it would allow people to spread out and utilise different camps to do Leve's as all Leve's of the same Rank would give the same SP/EXP so there would be no need for everyone to go to Broken Water to do the best R40 Leves.

Also it would stop Leve abandoning as you could decide with your group before hand which Leves you were going to take and obviously if you abandoned you would get nothing as the SP/EXP is rewarded at the end so it would be pointless.

This would also allow you to retry Leve's immediately if you did fail or D/C as it wouldn't be exploitable because the SP/EXP and reward is only gained upon completion. So if you D/C halfway though the Leve they could allow you to retry straight away as you wouldn't have gained any SP/EXP until the end anyway.

I think with just these few changes it would help a lot with the current situation regarding Leves and make them a bit more enjoyable as players will be able to go out and try different Leves at different camps without feeling like they are missing out on huge amounts of SP/EXP by taking different ones.

Additional Idea's

Others also suggested a Grade/Score at the end that could be the base for what SP you received. So if you did extremely well you got an S grade and got max SP from the Leve, if you did badly you would get get an E grade and get less SP. I actually really like that idea as it would give some extra motivation and an additional objective while doing the Leve.

Solo Vs. Party

So how do we balance solo vs. party with this new system. An idea would be to have only people who have linked the leve receive the lump sum of SP at the end. This would also have to work with other balances of Leve linking.

Maybe they could make it so you only get the lump sum at the end if you linked and linking only gives a 5% bonus per link. This would allow solo people to do them without feeling like they are missing out on the huge SP gains you currently get by linking but it would also allow parties to link for a smaller boost while also increasing the difficulty and other modifiers for an even bigger boost.

Lets say for example doing an R40 leve solo would give you 10K SP. Now if you fully leve linked it in a party and did it on a higher difficulty it could add up to a 50% boost so it would make it 15k SP. I think that would be more fair than what we have currently.

[weeble]

I think you're playing the wrong game. Here you go.

no offense but there goes the population of ffxi with there decision, and no matter how much u change you wont satisfy wow players to this game and you surely not getting any pvp players. this game needs cater to the old ffxi players or it gonna lose whatever is left of the population. maybe your happy with logging in every 1.5days to just do some leves and feel like you did your part in grinding but that to me is a joke and i'm sure even se didn't expect this to happen, as you can see they probably gonna fix leves so you can't do this so it proves i'm right, unless they give us every leve as an option too, then they really gonna screw this game up.

in reality if they didn't screw up ffxi like they did near the end, and they put out content like when it first came out i'm sure every one of us would still be playing it. also i'd have to say theres lots of mmo's comming bye the end of this year that will give every type of player something they really looking for, so them turning this mmo' into anything other then a ffxi-2 or a absolutly new game and not bits of peices of mmo's (the fail parts by the way) will become the death of this game.

[Leknaat]

The reason why failed leaves remain in your inventory is because the game was so eff'n unstable.
Back in september I was losing 5/8 leves per leve cycle due to the game crashing or getting dc'd. It gave you a chance to complete the leve (which makes me glad especially when I still DC occasionally on one that gives marks).

If SE wasn't so lazy and actually saved your leve progress (like with local leves) and maybe removed the time limit (for those pesky DC's that take that ridiculous 10 minutes to log back in) they could easily take out the failed leve option.

As is, if you DC and come back into the leve-link party your SP is pertty much gimped by half (same if for some dumb reason you had a previous leve still active when the new leve starts and have to choose to share the leader's leve).

I would say the culprits are:
1) Certain mobs award more SP like imps and dragons etc, making these particular leves more desirable (hence why the Japanese groups do Corpus Adamance and Devilet Inside in the 20-30s)
2) you need 4 people with the same leve to get the uber sp - which encourages you to hold onto the above 'better sp' leves
3) some leves are a joke like the Cedarwood one that requires you get 2 aldgoat steaks. I don't think that's ever taken more than 4 kills. Compare that to Ranine which would require killing 15 mobs minium.
4) Disconnects

And re local leves: you only have x number of items to synth with and 2 spares. When you fail, you fail. No try again option.

[Kallera]

The reason why failed leaves remain in your inventory is because the game was so eff'n unstable.
Back in september I was losing 5/8 leves per leve cycle due to the game crashing or getting dc'd. It gave you a chance to complete the leve.

If SE wasn't so lazy and actually saved your leve progress (like with local leves) and maybe removed the time limit (for those pesky DC's that take like 10 effin minutes to log back in) they could easily take out the failed leve option.

I would say the worst culprit though is
1) you need 4 people with the same leve to get the uberwonderful sp
2) some leves are a joke like the Cedarwood one that requires you get 2 aldgoat steaks. I don't think that's ever taken more than 4 kills.

And re local leves: you only have x number of items to synth with and 2 spares. When you fail, you fail. No try again option.

Us crafters are playing hard mode. Sissy gladiators can't own up to "The finer points o' crafting".

[Bayohne]

While the current situation where players intentionally fail leves is not against the rules of the current game design, it obviously doesn't foster a healthy game environment. In our future plans for Guildleves, we don't plan on adding a penalty for failing, but instead plan to include a bonus for completion.

[Cairdeas]

While the current situation where players intentionally fail leves is not against the rules of the current game design, it obviously doesn't foster a healthy game environment. In our future plans for Guildleves, we don't plan on adding a penalty for failing, but instead plan to include a bonus for completion.

Isn't that what I just suggested :P

[Perrin_Aybarra]

While the current situation where players intentionally fail leves is not against the rules of the current game design, it obviously doesn't foster a healthy game environment. In our future plans for Guildleves, we don't plan on adding a penalty for failing, but instead plan to include a bonus for completion.

Good stuff, more incentive for completing leves is always good. Also balancing all leves to be roughly equal in the SP the give will also help encourage players to complete their leves and not want to fail them.

[Kallera]

While the current situation where players intentionally fail leves is not against the rules of the current game design, it obviously doesn't foster a healthy game environment. In our future plans for Guildleves, we don't plan on adding a penalty for failing, but instead plan to include a bonus for completion.

That's all well and good, but the way it is now, the rewards of playing and redoing every 36 hours are outweighing the benefits of the completion screen. The completion of the leve should be the goal. It could be ranked so that players will have to do the leve well at high difficulty to get the biggest bonus (exp/gil), instead of awarding bonus exp on fighting the mobs.

[Rentahamster]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post179158

これは前述の失敗を繰り返して同じリーヴをプレイすることへの対策でもありますが、 リーヴをクリアした際に修錬値をもらえるようにして、クリアすることの意味を高めるようにするというものです。


"As a counter measure against the problem of players failing their leves on purpose so they can repeat the same ones over again, you will receive SP upon completion of a leve so that there is more of a reason to finish."

As far as I can recall, I don't believe this was ever translated and posted on the English forums.

so its leve balancing they are talking about, but from what i can tell, the translation says they are discussing it still and thats not how its going down yet


we need an official translation on this though honestly before we start really looking at what it says

While the current situation where players intentionally fail leves is not against the rules of the current game design, it obviously doesn't foster a healthy game environment. In our future plans for Guildleves, we don't plan on adding a penalty for failing, but instead plan to include a bonus for completion.

Told ya