Gil Generation - Why "Just Enough" as a ceiling needs to go.

[Kabooa]

Hello everyone. Kabooa here. I will be presenting a case for why gil income (and expenditure) needs to rise, even in the advent of reduced housing prices in the future. 1000 character limits sucks. To better explain this; Google documents.

These are preliminary thoughts and I hope they generate some good discussion.
Moving Gil

[PONGALLDAYBRO]

inb4 the fanboys claiming everything is fine.

Gathered materials should be 3-5 gil each imo. No NPC should sell any craftable or craft components. People claim the economy is player driven, but not when NPCs sell half the mats! If you don't want to gather - too bad! The way things are right now vendor bought mats are a rather large gil sink that often gets over looked and actually hurts the new player because they could be farming those mats and using/selling themselves - and in the long run it's also funneling gil out of the economy.

My addition: make "fun" (and non-HQ) things like fireworks, temporary vanity costumes, 1 time use gear skins - you name it - just make them consumable, fun and abundant. For example 3 grenade ash, 3 peridot, 3 fire shards make a green firework, put it in the special recipes tabs and wa-la! You now have an item sink for raw mats people can't sell.

[Xystic]

inb4 the fanboys claiming everything is fine.

Your saying people are defending this game, specifically, that the economy is fine but you have sufficient evidence to support that it isn't.

That information would specifically include an analysis of the gil in circulation to 2.1 and after 2.1.

Even though we see prices drop, if the gil in circulation remains the same, it indicates that the overall gil is now evenly spread in the market.

In order for you to say that people are fan boys, you have to prove not only are prices falling, you also have to prove that the overall gil in circulation is also falling.

We can't say well, I see 10 of the most hottest items prior to 2.1 falling and consider the entire market a disaster. What you would need to do to prove fanboys are wrong is take every item sold everyday, add up the total amount of gil that was circulated that day on the market board. Observe multiple days worth of the gil in circulation to see if indeed the overall gil in circulation is indeed falling on top of falling prices. This helps to indicate that the market maybe struggling. Not guaranteed crashing but struggling.

If the over gil in circulation maintains the same, that means the economy is fine but the gil is now spread out evenly between the market instead of the 10 hottest items having a go at the majority of gil.

If we see an increase in gil circulation everyday, that means gil maybe leaking into the market from gil generation or people are unleashing hoarded gil. However, since people haven't bought many houses, its more than likely that the increase in gil in circulation would come from gil generation meaning gil generation is slowly doing its job.

So before you claim that you know the market is indeed collapsing. You need to present the information above to the community. Without it, we can't say the economy is failing or prospering. Neither should we be calling each other names when in fact we don't have the sufficient evidence to know the actual answer if the economy is doing good or bad.

[Kabooa]

To keep everything moving, there needs to be supply and demand. Currently, there's far too much supply and not enough demand. Many stat increasing potions and restoring potions, for example, are simply not worth the time. Odds are you can do everything without them. Potions are just a small example of an area of the market that could use improvement. As someone posted in another thread here, there aren't enough reasons to spend. Combined with there not being many ways (or interesting / effective ways) of generating gil, and you get a rather stagnant economy.

Tiered materials are also less than desirable. Except for a select few recipes, for example, nothing uses copper after your get past that tier. Silver, Mythril, Iron, and so forth. If everything remained useful, in some manner or form, you spread out the profitable ventures for gatherers, rather than every single level 50 miner hitting up the same stuff.

[PONGALLDAYBRO]

lol precisely the fanboy i was expecting! i play the markets - pretty much 6-8 hours a day, been doing this the last 2 months. every mmo i play it's all about getting rich! in this game there is NO single way to efficiently farm gil without cooldowns or playing the markets. the gil generation methods you speak of might be nice for someone looking to make 25k/day, but for people like me thats peanuts and the 'additional gil generation methods' you speak of are barely noticeable.

[Matsume]

You can just edit your post to add more text than the character limit will allow.... no need to make a document and link out to it.

[Nova_Dresden]

To keep everything moving, there needs to be supply and demand. Currently, there's far too much supply and not enough demand.

There's no need to generate a demand if there is none. There's a reason people stopped making Beta Max, VHS, and Laserdisc players. No one wanted them. If people stopped buying what you were selling that doesn't mean the market is dying. It just means it shifted and you aren't moving with it. I know some people ONLY play MMOs to be rich, but I'm cheap and hoard. There had better be a BIG reason for me to spend.

[Xystic]

lol precisely the fanboy i was expecting! i play the markets - pretty much 6-8 hours a day, been doing this the last 2 months. every mmo i play it's all about getting rich! in this game there is NO single way to efficiently farm gil without cooldowns or playing the markets. the gil generation methods you speak of might be nice for someone looking to make 25k/day, but for people like me thats peanuts and the 'additional gil generation methods' you speak of are barely noticeable.

The fact that you know people are making 25k/day in gil generation means you can do some sort of speculation.

Now also add in the fact that 25k/day will exceed the original amount of gil on the server that came from 1-50 which was around 150k.

We are increasing the total amount of gil on a server in insane numbers. Every couple days a to week, we are talking about possibly billions of gil increase with just 25k/day per player.

Also once again please refrain from using fanboy. This is a place of discussion and you defend your arguments with facts and logical speculations. Not insults.

[Hiroradius]

Prices are dropping for multiple reasons, people don't seem to understand.

Prices are dropping because the value of said item is becoming less needed. Vanya set's for example were the craze end of sept thru october, but now with the increase in myth tomes, the i80 gear in a pretty easy raid, Vanya set is becoming obsolete, so now the price of the item needs to drop to get people to spend/waste gil on it, AND the price of the materials need to drop so that someone can still make somekind of profit. Now with the increase in the amount of philo tomes we get, and the ease of getting darklight, i80 and myth items(basically 1 i90 piece a week and approx 1000 philo tomes just to max out your myth tomes equals 2 or 3 pieces of darklight a week) excess philo tomes are being created very quickly and being used to buy mats and sold, so this is increasing the supply of materials for product that is no longer in demand, which again decreases the price.

So now we are at a point in the game where the supply of items exceeds the demand of product which is why the economy is going down. There isn't less gil in circulation, just no reason to use it. And now it also get's easier and easier to get gil (again maxing your myth tomes a week using duty finder high level routlette only grants approx 35k, if you include the other 3 roulettes, once a day, grants an additional 60 to 70k a week) they need to create more gil sinks to take the gil out of the economy (anyone notice that allagan pieces don't seem to drop in dungeons anymore?)

Now the hot new item in game was furniture for housing, yet the flaw behind this is, a) the prices are too high for the free companies to purchase land yet, so crafters are making items that are not needed yet and devaluing them quickly due to the amount of people trying to make a profit on what should be a hot item. and b)most free companies don't need to go to the AH to buy the furniture, they turn to their members and say, "Who can craft the tonberry lamp for our free company house". So now when personal housing comes out in which these items would actually hold more value, they will be so overstocked that again, no money to really be made.

And lastly, another reason for the decline in the economy is because everyone can craft everything. At the beginning, product held more value because there were less people making it and the demand for the said product was needed, now that people have hit 50, geared up, done their 300/450 myth tome weekly allowance, they turned to crafting themselves, which added more competition and supply of the product, and as supply increase, demand decreased.

Next we could look at the market of pvp which should/could have been profitable, but again by the time pvp came in, too many people were able to make the products the would want/need to use during their pvp match, AND since their is no official ranking system, the items/pots are not as needed.

So when all is said and done, there is only one market to make money and people are turning to this market now which is again starting to make the supply far exceed the demand since again, this market has very little use in end game raiding.

[Kabooa]

You can just edit your post to add more text than the character limit will allow.... no need to make a document and link out to it.

Much thanks. Strange that they include a limit and then have this work around.