The problem with allowing Turn 2 Rage strat

[Maelwys]

As others have already mentioned, Turn 2 'Normal method' isn't that tough of a fight, it just needs a good silence rotation and a little dodging.

But if you want to run it in PUGs, you could always level a Healer.

Most PLDs will already have a level 34 CNJ for "Stoneskin" anyway.
It doesn't take much to get that to a 50 WHM (only need ARC to 15 since 'Eye for an Eye' is useless in T2. Heck, you could even do without "Swiftcast" from THM)
Fit it with Darklight (you'll likely have plenty of phil to spare from all the new CT runs)
Swap to it for Turn 2. Problem solved.

Turn 2 Rage strat doesn't need much in the way of Healer gear, as long as you have three Healers with enough HP not to get one-shot plus one Bard, it's pretty cake. (with Full DL plus cheap food you'll be sitting at around 4k HP, maybe slightly less if you're using a Primal weapon instead of a Relic. Anything over 3.5k HP is plenty for the 0-click strategy)

Should you need to level a healer to pass certain content? No.
But then you don't need to level a healer to pass that content, you just need to level a healer to make yourself a little bit more attractive to the PUG groups which are using a certain FoTM strategy. Welcome to MMORPG supply-and-demand

[Lien]

This guy probably haven't heard the term "work smarter not harder." I don't see the problem here. If you beating it the hard way then kudos to you, keep doing it. You making it seems that there is only one solution to everything, apparently the world is round there are more ppl use their brain better than you.

[Viridiana]

So if 10 groups clear using the enrage strategy, 5 double heal, 5 triple heal then you would have 25 healers, 10 tanks, 45 dps that are then looking for a turn 4 group.

There are at least 4 group compositions that you just described, yet you only considered 2 of them for the rest of your post.

1: T T H H D D D D (normal composition)
2: T T H H H D D D (least likely)
3: T H H H D D D D (common enrage composition)
4: T H H D D D D D (other common composition)

The thing is, if you're double healing anyway, it doesn't much matter what the rest of your composition is. This is just like the Titan fight. You only need one tank, you only need 2 healers, and you only need 4 DD. The last slot is a wildcard. Seriously, #3 and #4 are exactly what you usually find in Titan HM, yet I don't see you complaining that it gates access to relics and to Coil, even though Titan HM actually directly blocks BC access.

And of course, none of this is getting to the heart of the matter -- why aren't these tanks just starting their own enrage groups? Not like there aren't enough heals and dps to get them through it. . .

[Raale]

Again, it all comes down to choices. Why are you complaining about pugging and how you do turn 2? You do realize you can do FC run and you can choose to do it the normal way or the easy way regardless of how it works out in FC run. A lot of people have alt jobs and would gladly switch to a particular role needed to complete something as long as they have a fair shot at the loot of their main job.

So, stop whining about something when you have a choice. Stop worrying about the "lack" of tank. There's already a severe lack of tanks in the game. Have you been watching the random roulette where it's tank bonus practically 24/7? Makes no difference for Coil runs as there will still be lack of tanks. So, do FC runs and do the run however you want, you have a choice.

[Ricon]

I can't seem to follow the logic here. SE is not supporting PUGs in coil, hence it not being in the DF, but you want SE to kill a method of clearing so you can have more tanks for PUGs. Please correct me if I'm wrong here too but doesn't turn 2 only drop the fending ring that tanks should even care about? My FC has tried a ton of ways from the normal kill, killing rot boss and trying that, enrage, more than 3 bosses, different paths. Enrage works well for us because we can bring different people who are newer 50's to help boost their gear, morale, fun, participation, etc.. Take it away, we still clear it but you are just going to hurt some of my guys that did nothing wrong but start the game later or don't have the time to play as much.

Oh and by the way, our main group changes a smn to sch and a war to mnk after cad to kill enrage ADS so nobody gets cheated out of participation.

[Maelwys]

Please correct me if I'm wrong here too but doesn't turn 2 only drop the fending ring that tanks should even care about?

Allagan Ring of Fending (BIS)
Allagan Earrings of Fending (BIS)
Allagan Plate Belt (BIS)
Heavy Allagan Cuisses (Legs, Not BIS unless you're going for a DPS setup)

[Ricon]

Allagan Ring of Fending (BIS)
Allagan Earrings of Fending (BIS)
Allagan Plate Belt (BIS)
Heavy Allagan Cuisses (Legs, Not BIS unless you're going for a DPS setup)

Thank you! I think most of the post stands but I do thank you for the correction, that being said the tanks should be trying to run this for those slots.

[Slark]

Honestly, I think using the enrage is pretty silly, but I don't really care if it's removed or not. At the end of the day, my coil group gets to ADS with 6-8 ticks and engages right there, causing us to down it WAY faster than a pug (I'm going to also say that we down the actual fight far faster than people who adopt this strategy as well). Although it is slightly disappointing to see people trivialize an entire fight that my static had to wipe a few times to understand and coordinate, it doesn't really matter to me. You cannot trivialize the mechanics of every single boss. Turn 2 is made to tone players into a coordinated state by incorporating rot/tank swap/healer focusing/silence rotations/dodge AOE because turn 1 is mostly a gear check if anything in my opinion. Eventually, you will have to learn and get good. Applying this strategy is only delaying the inevitable for those who choose to down it this way. At the end of the day, me and my friends became much better at FFXIV by developing our own strategy and getting tuned to this games flow, while people who (god forbid) skip turn 1 and down turn2 this way have no clue what they're doing. Meanwhile, my group downs this encounter far faster, and has t5 on farm because we know how to play.

I don't really care if people are walking around in Allagan they don't deserve, hell, me and my friends made quite a pretty penny selling Titan HM runs for 200k+ a pop a few months ago. Why do I not care? Because I am just as geared, if not more so, except I will always get taken over them because I am actually a good player, which matters far more than a few pieces of gear. At the end of the day, in my opinion, people who run it this way are only hurting themselves. FFXIV boss fights, to me, so far have been incredibly easy and rather lax in the commandment of player skills. Turn 2, depending on what path you take, is the most involved and chaotic fight (from my perspective as a healer) in all of coil, with the exception of Twister phase, which is around the same difficulty as Turn 2 in my opinion, but less forgiving. However, I also DPS dreadknights which adds to my list of things to do during twister phase. Nonetheless, It's good to get practice when it's hard to come by.

I don't really see the point in doing raids if you trivialize the fight into a tank and spank. The joy of raiding to me is compromised of three things: 1) Having fun with friends 2) Getting to check out the amazing artwork and hard work put into the dungeons aesthetics 3) Engaging unique, fun, and challenging boss fights, and also overcoming them. If you pug 7 other people and you resort to strategies like this, raiding becomes nothing more than another monotone and boring weekly kill quota quest, similar to boring MMO dailies. Why even play? Using strategies like this on literally near-impossible bosses (pre-nerf twin), while going for world firsts is an entirely different situation. People are using those strategies to become world/server firsts, or because they have no other option. T2 enrage strategy is executed purely out of laziness by people who most likely overgear the encounter to begin with. Although the mechanics may be similar, the reasoning behind the execution could not be more opposite. They should not be lumped together in my opinion.

I don't see how people can argue that haters of this strategy are "jealous that someone found a smarter way to play". You didn't, what you found was a more convenient way to down an encounter for people who don't know how to play the game.
McDonalds is also more convenient than a lot of meals, but that doesn't make it a smarter, nor a more stimulating experience.

[Zumi]

The enrage is broken. If a boss enrages it should kill you within a couple seconds. SE needs to change it so ADS pulses for 10k damage when it is enraged. When you don't meet the dps check on titan heart or ifrits nails you are dead, when you run out of time on Twintania she enrages with pules damage that is impossible to heal through and kills you in 1 or 2 pulses, proper enrage mechanics that work correctly.

All I see in party finder are Turn 2 enrage mode 1 tank 3 healers 4 dps. This is not how the fight was meant to be beaten. Exploiting a design flaw in the fight to ignore mechanics and not have to learn how to do the fight as it was intended is not how the game should be played. As others have said its almost as bad as when people were bugging Twintania to make it only autoattack which promptly got fixed by SE. Turn 2 isn't hard but if you can't beat the fight in the proper way you don't deserve gear from it.

I hope SE ups the damage when the boss enrages and fixes people cheesing the fight.

[Ashira]

Snip

You say this is a design flaw, though I personally can't see it. Someone sat there and coded this; do you really think they overlooked that the damage they were putting in for him to do wasn't going to be enough to wipe the group? It's simple. There are hard enrages like the ones you mentioned and soft enrages, like the one you didn't mention; Turn 4. If they up the damage here then surely they should make Turn 4 enrage one shot you aswel.