Auto attack: A complete battle system

[kukurumei]

There are quite a few more tactics involved than spamming 1 or 2 or whatever. I have learned that doing that only leaves me out of stamina for more important skills like Provoke, Sentinel, etc. Plus another good tactic to the current system is to start a battle regimen when you are nearly out of stamina, this lets your stamina bar's recover while others join the battle regimen.

Auto attack is unnecessary, Just adapt to the current system in place. It just needs improvements such as lag times and animation of attacks.

Way to put in some of the badly need tweaking skills... sentinel which takes half a bar and last for 10 seconds?

And a heavy stab 3x will do more damage and hate then provoke (though the provoke trait is non standard) does most of the time. Most of them falling under "auto attack".

You're not going to bring anyone to liking a system they're not liking like this, auto attack or no auto attack.

It's still "spam" trained spam is still spam. 111234 is spam. 234111345 is still spam. The sequence of unnecessary actions make the game a race to do as many action in as little time as possible. Throw in quick tactics for spice.

It is not, no matter how you explain it, selecting the best action for the situation. Sure we don't want to slow it down to a chess game, but no one wants to learn how to juggle, cook, and play chess at the same time.

Auto attack is a short cut to equalizing the playing field via stats. Like using a calculator on a math test. The material of the test is what's important, not the accuracy. Making a stupid mistake because you carried your 4 wrong doesn't mean you don't know the material, it just means you made a stupid mistake doing basic multiplication.

I'll reiterate how I think a system would take place.

All skills should be split into 3 types, auto-activate skills, Stamina skills, and TP skills.

Light/Heavy thrust, etc should be put under auto-activate skills You can even create a system where you can change skills on the fly in battle. Mages can get new skills like "charge" or defense for various effects, like MP recover or HP recover.

Stamina skills would be the bread and butter skills which would have a timer and stamina requirement, the "game changer skills"

TP skills would not be on stamina requirement but rather TP, almost like the FF11, which can also help the BR/SC situations and we again can ration them, not like now with the TP spam all over the place (FF11 before the TP nerf)

So the battle system should then be push back to only needing to watch stamina and cool downs, and occasionally tp, but very rarely do you have to constantly make attacks to be useful.

[Reika]

Sentinel lasts for more than 10 seconds... if you are a Gladiator or have Swordsmanship. Provoke is not a trait, and does not do damage.

Automated battle systems will only serve to aid botters and put people to sleep.

[kukurumei]

Sentinel lasts for more than 10 seconds... if you are a Gladiator or have Swordsmanship. Provoke is not a trait, and does not do damage.

Automated battle systems will only serve to aid botters and put people to sleep.

the traits as in properties...

and provoke is well behind heavy stabbing stuff currently.

And we already have botters(what's left of the community anyway) and people are already leaving. It's like trying to convince people would to skip town when everyone is on the road out already.

Not sure how an automated attack would help botters. Nothing differs pressing macro 1 every 10-seconds to a bot script. Heck bot scripts would be infinitely easy no matter what skills you stick in. WoW bots could beat you in a PvP, because they have close to zero lag time in cooldown management.

[Reika]

the traits as in properties...

and provoke is well behind heavy stabbing stuff currently.

And we already have botters(what's left of the community anyway) and people are already leaving. It's like trying to convince people would to skip town when everyone is on the road out already.

Not sure how an automated attack would help botters. Nothing differs pressing macro 1 every 10-seconds to a bot script. Heck bot scripts would be infinitely easy no matter what skills you stick in. WoW bots could beat you in a PvP, because they have close to zero lag time in cooldown management.

Heavy stab does not have as much Eminity gain as you would believe. Heavy Slash beats it, and costs as much stamina as Provoke, Sentinel, Aegis Boon, Deflection, Disorient, etc.

Why don't we just ask them to make this game just like WoW and Rift (both are exactly alike) since so many people have to bring up WoW all the time when comparing. Let us bring the entire immature player population over while they are at it. Make it a game all the lazy douche bags love to infest.

Lack of auto attack gives FFXIV a more into an action-based combat system other MMO's lack. To complain about spamming means to complain about every MMO every created. In WoW and Rift you spam instant skills with only a .5-1sec global cooldown and short cooldowns like 5 or 6 seconds, In Aion you spam chain skills, so on and so forth. In sense, they are still 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 2 (the current for Paladin, Rogue, Death Knight, blah blah). FFXIV just has you spamming in a way you wont do any damage unless you're awake.

[Honz]

I like the current battle system, but it could use some tweaks.

Introduce a haste like spell to conjurers or a passive haste trait to any DoW/M. The stamina bar works very well with the current BR/SC system. If adding auto-attack meant removing normal attacks (eg. spirit dart, light shot, heavy strike, etc.) they would have to revamp the BR system as well since normal attacks play a big part in them.

[kukurumei]

Lack of auto attack gives FFXIV a more into an action-based combat system other MMO's lack. To complain about spamming means to complain about every MMO every created. In WoW and Rift you spam instant skills with only a .5-1sec global cooldown and short cooldowns like 5 or 6 seconds, In Aion you spam chain skills, so on and so forth. In sense, they are still 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 2 (the current for Paladin, Rogue, Death Knight, blah blah). FFXIV just has you spamming in a way you wont do any damage unless you're awake.

No I can afk ff14 just fine with macros, it doesn't take that much skill, and it surely doesn't help that it's shallow. The problem with your take is that those are PvP oriented game and FF14 is PvE oriented games.

let's face it AIs are stupid. All it would take me is, 11245112 and it's done. Macro help some of the more easier combinations and it's more or less a done deal.

The other games of WoW origin, no not all of them are 11241 but at least they are pvp oriented so that people can actually "feel" the need to hone hand eye coordinations. Thats why they can jump around dodge and move like idiots because the opponent is not an AI and have the ability to disrupt actions.

None of that exist in FF14. No AI can take the place of actually opponent that makes spam less spammy. They're AI. MMO AI no less.

And Aion...heh it's funny you mentioned the most resent let down of MMO community.

I like the current battle system, but it could use some tweaks.

Introduce a haste like spell to conjurers or a passive haste trait to any DoW/M. The stamina bar works very well with the current BR/SC system. If adding auto-attack meant removing normal attacks (eg. spirit dart, light shot, heavy strike, etc.) they would have to revamp the BR system as well since normal attacks play a big part in them.

Then we're in luck, people aren't thrilled with BR anyway.

[Reika]

No I can afk ff14 just fine with macros, it doesn't take that much skill, and it surely doesn't help that it's shallow. The problem with your take is that those are PvP oriented game and FF14 is PvE oriented games.

let's face it AIs are stupid. All it would take me is, 11245112 and it's done. Macro help some of the more easier combinations and it's more or less a done deal.

The other games of WoW origin, no not all of them are 11241 but at least they are pvp oriented so that people can actually "feel" the need to hone hand eye coordinations. Thats why they can jump around dodge and move like idiots because the opponent is not an AI and have the ability to disrupt actions.

None of that exist in FF14. No AI can take the place of actually opponent that makes spam less spammy. They're AI. MMO AI no less.

And Aion...heh it's funny you mentioned the most resent let down of MMO community.




Then we're in luck, people aren't thrilled with BR anyway.

Who seriously makes macros so they can do battle in their sleep? If i find one of them in my behest I'm kicking them out...

[kukurumei]

Who seriously makes macros so they can do battle in their sleep? If i find one of them in my behest I'm kicking them out...

Even slimming down to 8 man, behest is still as easy as pressing macros or worse, just get a key sequence program which is a mini bot script. Logitech even provides those straight from the HW side.

Did you truly have a blindfold over your eyes? It's been going on since forever. Doesn't take much to realize pressing buttons really fast over and over again, is...programable.

[Linnear]

Sentinel lasts for more than 10 seconds... if you are a Gladiator or have Swordsmanship. Provoke is not a trait, and does not do damage.

Automated battle systems will only serve to aid botters and put people to sleep.

This is my favorite post on this thread as it is the only one that tries to explain why SE does not have an auto attack. I have tried to think of a solid reason for not having it and the anti bot/afk progression appears to be the only reason for it. You lose a lot of interesting game mechanics for not having one and gain very little for excluding it as far as I can see, other than making it harder to bot/afk. On this thread so far, I have seen people trying to figure out neat ways to implemlent an auto attack system and them being shot down without providing a reason for not having it other than the game is not that spammy without it. Personally I don't think that is a viable arguement as all it does is say that you can work withen the current system other then explain why the system is good. When you making a decision such as auto attack / not auto attack, you need to figure out what each one provides to the game experience and I don't see many +s for the current system.

All allusions to FFXI and comments about how an auto attack should be left to FFXI is a wast of forum space and time to read becuase it does not aruge the reason for it in FFXIV on any merit or metric. So if you want to reply to this post, please try to provide some detailed reason othar that my rotation is super cool and I don't spam go back to XI.

Ok, now that is said, my personal problem with the lack of auto attack is the reduction in weapon choices and advantages you get from different weapon types. I might be missing something but I really dislike the fact that as a Glad, my dagger action takes as much stamina as my sword...... this hurts my brain when I think about it and it takes something away form the game that I love in other games. I like the concept of weapon speeds and the stats attributed to them and such. I also like running around with 5 weapons in my inventory for various mobs and situations and scenarios. I do not want my decisison between a dagger and a sword to be which ever one is higher level..... I want sword A and sword B to have more differences than stats, I want weapon speeds! it may seem like a small change but personally I see it as a big loss.

Noone has mentioned this yet but gear alotments and the way that stats are assigned to gear is also uninteresting to me. In many games you can set your gear depending on what aspect of your character you want to focus. I don't see much of that in FFXIV, I will admit that SE needs to fix a LOT in the game before getting around to it, but at the moment I find the armoury system lacking. I want a decision in gear to be lose 10% auto attack for 5% in two abilities, but that does not seem to happen right now, once again I may be missing something, but without weapon speed this nuance appears to be lost.

In short, why is having no auto attack good?
Why is having an auto attack bad? other than to stop bots and afking.

I can see a couple of advantages in having one, please provide a counter arguement for not.

[kukurumei]

I still don't see how any attempt to stop bots can stem from auto attack. Bots scripts are fully capable of pressing 1 in conjunction with 2, 3, 4, and 5.

That's like saying I'll stop people stealing money by having my room at the end of the hallway instead of the beginning of the hallway.