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  1. #41
    Player
    Classikal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    87
    Character
    Daq Kiri
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    ARCHER Lv 50
    I could upgrade from ST to AT with just cheap NPC food if needed for 2 star, but atm I am guranteeing 1-star HQ with ST so AT is not needed on 1-star. I was just kind of curious how much control would be required for this particular rotation to 100% 2-star since it actually doesn't even need CP food atm.
    (0)
    Last edited by Classikal; 11-18-2013 at 10:25 AM.

  2. #42
    Player
    Classikal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    87
    Character
    Daq Kiri
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    ARCHER Lv 50
    Hmmm, just for shits and giggles I tried the no food rotation on a cheap 2-star synth(Pineapple Juice to be exact) just to see how high I could get it. and I got it to 100% 1st try, wasn't really much special on RNG, like 1 Good on a BT, that was it.



    333 Craftsmanship, 326 Control, 339 CP(only 335 used)

    BB went off for 1856 on a normal lol.
    (0)
    Last edited by Classikal; 11-18-2013 at 01:15 PM.

  3. #43
    Player
    Ksenia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    642
    Character
    Ksenia Solo
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    WEAVER Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphraell View Post
    Requires 347Craft, 340Control and 381CP(Use food) 40 Durability any difficulty

    Comfort Zone
    Inner Quiet
    Steady Hand II
    Waste Not II
    Hasty Touch x 4
    Steady Hand II
    Hasty Touch x3
    Manipulation
    Steady Hand II
    Basic Touch
    Great Strides
    Ingenuity
    Innovation (Skip if on Excellent condition)
    Byregot's Blessing
    Careful Synthesis II x 2
    LOL, Just tried this.

    7 Hasty Hand, 21 total ( tried it 3 times on dodore leather at 50)
    14 blew up.

    This is why I hate fail farming Hasty Hand.
    (0)

  4. #44
    Player
    Aphraell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    94
    Character
    Aph Raell
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    GOLDSMITH Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Ksenia View Post
    LOL, Just tried this.

    7 Hasty Hand, 21 total ( tried it 3 times on dodore leather at 50)
    14 blew up.

    This is why I hate fail farming Hasty Hand.
    What do you mean by "blew up". The rotation is made to use the exact maximum allowed turns? Considering it has 7 Hasty touches at 80% chance and 1 normal touch plus Byregot's blessing. It should HQ most of the time.

    If your saying the item broke and didn't complete the synthesis, your either not following the CP requirement or not following the rotation exactly.

    Mmmm just reread your post. I think your saying you failed 14 hasty touches out of 21 - Your one unlucky SOB>! Percentage wise - you should have failed 4.2
    (0)
    Last edited by Aphraell; 11-22-2013 at 07:33 AM.

  5. #45
    Player
    Maelwys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    449
    Character
    Womble O'flaherty
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    GLADIATOR Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphraell View Post
    This is my tweaked HQ rotation for 2 Star crafting for 80 Durability only. If you follow the instructions below, the Rotation can NOT fail. Guaranteed 100% HQ now.
    Requires 347Craft, 340Control and 373CP(Use food)
    Would this still be a completely guaranteed 100% HQ chance if you got an excellent condition after using the first "Waste Not" and had to eat a Poor condition on the first Basic Touch...?
    (I make it that with 340 control you would end up just short of the quality cap, but with 342 Control you could close the gap via getting a few extra points out of the other touches)
    (0)

  6. #46
    Player
    Aphraell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    94
    Character
    Aph Raell
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    GOLDSMITH Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelwys View Post
    Would this still be a completely guaranteed 100% HQ chance if you got an excellent condition after using the first "Waste Not" and had to eat a Poor condition on the first Basic Touch...?
    (I make it that with 340 control you would end up just short of the quality cap, but with 342 Control you could close the gap via getting a few extra points out of the other touches)
    Yep!

    You can get poor on any of the touches except the last 2 - hence I've allowed for that by using Observe and the timing of the Byregot's. Plenty of other rotations say they are 100% but they are NOT because of the chance of poor touches not being taken into consideration. This rotation if you follow the instructions is 100%.
    (0)

  7. #47
    Player
    Maelwys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    449
    Character
    Womble O'flaherty
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    GLADIATOR Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphraell View Post
    Yep!

    You can get poor on any of the touches except the last 2 - hence I've allowed for that by using Observe and the timing of the Byregot's. Plenty of other rotations say they are 100% but they are NOT because of the chance of poor touches not being taken into consideration. This rotation if you follow the instructions is 100%.
    Cheers.

    I'm not meaning to doubt your word, just still trying to get my head around all the numbers

    Using http://xivsim.x0.com/ with that rotation and 340 Control, I make it -

    1st Basic Touch - 119
    2nd Basic Touch - 137
    3rd Basic Touch - 156
    4th Basic Touch - 174
    5th Basic Touch - 193
    Standard Touch - 529
    B.Blessing - 1658
    Total Quality attained (with no condition modifiers): 2966

    The Quality Cap for a 233 Difficulty 2-star synth is listed as 2921

    2966-2921 = a 45 "Overflow" of surplus quality from your rotation, assuming that you get no Goods/Poors/Excellents on anything.

    If you get a Poor on anything other than the first Basic touch or the Standard touch then it doesn't matter - You can force Blessing to dodge it by dropping Innovation, and the other Basic Touches can just ignore it because you'd already be sitting on a Quality surplus from an Excellent condition hitting a previous Basic Touch. And as you mention above, you've allowed for dodging a Poor condition on the Standard Touch by factoring in the use of "Observe" after Great Strides.

    However you get an Excellent Condition on "Steady Hands II" then the 1st Basic Touch will get hit by a Poor, which I think is a 0.5 modifier (assuming that's what Poor conditions equate to) I think this would halve the +119 quality you'd get from that first Basic Touch, which would leave you 59.5-45 = 14.5 Quality short of the 2921 "cap" at the end of the rotation if you don't get any other "good" conditions elsewhere.

    Certainly you could use "Observe" to stop a Poor condition hitting either the Standard Touch OR the First Basic Touch, but if the RNG stars line up against you and you may need to use it twice in one synth, it'd potentilaly push your CP usage up over 373...?

    If I plug in 342 Control instead of 340 into http://xivsim.x0.com/ then the quality "buffer" you have at the end of the synth rises up to the point where it can completely conteract the loss of quality from that first Basic Touch getting an 0.5 modifier...

    It's quite possible that the planner I'm using doesn't quite have the right numbers and I may also be overestimating the impact of a poor condition, I just wanted to double-check this before I commit to levelling up Goldsmith to 50!! Thanks!
    (0)

  8. #48
    Player
    Vortok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    189
    Character
    Vortok Mercadia
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    ARCANIST Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelwys View Post
    Certainly you could use "Observe" to stop a Poor condition hitting either the Standard Touch OR the First Basic Touch, but if the RNG stars line up against you and you may need to use it twice in one synth, it'd potentilaly push your CP usage up over 373...?
    You can't really use Observe for the first Basic Touch because Waste Not is already active. The two main ways to address it is to have enough Control for it to not matter (preferred) or to start with at least one HQ mat if you're super paranoid.

    I've used that simulator you linked before. Unless it was updated within the past month or so it is not 100% accurate. It provides a close approximation, but the quality increases it output did not match up with what I got in game with the same Control stat. The early Basic Touches were a few points off, nevermind the later Touch actions. I tried finding the formula, and found one that looked decent, but sadly the equation used was a bit over my head when to comes to math knowledge so I couldn't plug in numbers (to first see if it was an accurate equation) to figure out the bare minimum Control needed in a worst case scenario.


    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l)-and-a-TOOL-!
    That's where I found the a formula if anyone feels like poking around. My math curriculum didn't cover rank 2 polynomes (quick google didn't help, feel like I should be able to read it but alas) so I was SOL, hehe. Also couldn't launch the crafting simulator linked in that post (needed Web 2.0 or something) to determine if it was accurate, either.
    (1)
    Last edited by Vortok; 11-28-2013 at 05:16 PM.

  9. #49
    Player
    Maelwys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    449
    Character
    Womble O'flaherty
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    GLADIATOR Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Vortok View Post
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l)-and-a-TOOL-!
    That's where I found the a formula if anyone feels like poking around. My math curriculum didn't cover rank 2 polynomes (quick google didn't help, feel like I should be able to read it but alas) so I was SOL, hehe. Also couldn't launch the crafting simulator linked in that post (needed Web 2.0 or something) to determine if it was accurate, either.
    I've actually been using that simulator as well for rotations but didn't notice the Touch Calculator bit (the reason I used http://xivsim.x0.com/ was because that's the one Aphraell linked earlier!)
    You're right, it more or less agrees with the first few touches but the later touches were getting substantially more:

    Basic #1: 118
    Basic #2: 137
    Basic #3: 157
    Basic #4: 176
    Basic #5: 196
    Standard: 541
    Blessing: 1658
    =2983

    2983-2921=62 Surplus (which would be enough to weather a poor on the 1st Touch with 340 Control!)

    (Incidentally the web 2.0 sim is a bit buggy, it keeps crashing on me occasionally whenever I use Waste Not 2... but unlike http://xivsim.x0.com/ Ingenuity usually wears off whenever it's supposed to!)
    (0)

  10. #50
    Player
    Aphraell's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
    Posts
    94
    Character
    Aph Raell
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    GOLDSMITH Lv 50
    I'm not a huge fan of the simulators, but they can be useful sometimes.

    Run the 80 durability hasty rotation in my first post and hit the simulator a few times. It comes up with some huge numbers .
    Hopefully one day harder items to craft come out and I can use it!
    (0)

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