Warrior "buff" in 2.1: not what we are expecting?

**Nitrophenol** · 10-30-2013 01:41 PM

Im not sure about the incoming changes to Warrior. The message thats circling around does not make mention of the current flaws that Warrior has (i.e; not so great HP pool and close to pathetic self healing, to name a few). Remember that not long ago Yoshi said; "Warrior is working as intended..."
The issue mentioned message is about the strategy thats currently being employed by players in coil where 2 pallys are used. They only seem to promise to tweak Warrior so that it can be used in coil to take on the role they "intended" it to have (which in my opinion, is that of the janitor, that is here to take care of the trash mobs). The only real issue mentioned in the message is that of our stun cd.

So my question is; does anybody think this so called "buff" to warriors is nothing more than a minimal alteration to make us useful tanking trash mobs in coil, rather than giving us our rightful place as an equally effective MT next to the Paladin?
Or am I paranoid?

**Yagrush** · 10-30-2013 01:47 PM

They did mention they were gonna make around 7 adjustments, so who knows how much things they are actually changing, aside from the brutal swing change and the "WARs cant bypass the turn 1 mechanic like PLDs can" thing.

**Myrhn** · 10-30-2013 01:50 PM

How can you say "is not what we expected" if you not even sure what are the changes?

**Woodberry** · 10-30-2013 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Myrhn

How can you say "is not what we expected" if you not even sure what are the changes?

Well, based on Yoshi saying warriors were fine and not understanding that pallies would use their abilities to get through content, I think it is safe to assume that whatever changes are coming, they most certainly won't be what is expected. Probably won't make any sense whatsoever.

**Taemek** · 10-30-2013 01:57 PM

I'm confused how 7.5k+ hp is "not so great hp pool..."...../boogle

Also, it still stands that Paladins will likely receive adjustments that brings them down to our level and finally, Yoshida said that Warriors were working as intended alas their need for some minor tweaks, he did however mention that the use of 2 PLD's to trivialize Coil was not intended.

**Vactus** · 10-30-2013 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Taemek

I'm confused how 7.5k+ hp is "not so great hp pool..."...../boogle

Also, it still stands that Paladins will likely receive adjustments that brings them down to our level and finally, Yoshida said that Warriors were working as intended alas their need for some minor tweaks, he did however mention that the use of 2 PLD's to trivialize Coil was not intended.

I could have sworn Yoshi said that instead of nerfing content or PLD, they'd be buffing (adjusting) WAR. A single PLD can tank Cadecus... something that wasn't intended.

**Taemek** · 10-30-2013 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Vactus

I could have sworn Yoshi said that instead of nerfing content or PLD, they'd be buffing (adjusting) WAR. A single PLD can tank Cadecus... something that wasn't intended.

He didn't really say any such thing about buffing Warriors at all, he did however apologize for 2 x PLD's trivializing Coil though and that wasn't intended. He went on to say that Warriors would get a look, including their Stun skill which has a long animation time compared to other melee classes stun abilities which has a short animation time.

The thing people don't seem to be aware of is, if Warriors were made to be able to tank as efficiently and effectively as a PLD, why would anyone then take a PLD over a Warrior, and then Warriors are in the same predicament as PLD's and getting doubled up on in Coil and any other future content because now we tank as good as PLD's but do more DPS as well in the process, so now PLD's will be here crying nerf Warriors DPS OR buff PLD's to Warriors DPS..... it is a never ending vicious circle.

I'm not interested in tanking as good as a PLD because I happen to like my DPS in tank spec and out of tank spec. If that is altered, it defeats the purpose of playing a Warrior unless they can make Warriors have a DPS stance so we can melee DPS also.

**Uliq** · 10-30-2013 03:14 PM

Warrior would require more skill then paladin to maintain it's tanking ability. Paladin is straight mitigation, and war heals itself. If they keep the warrior concept as it is it'd be just like choosing MRD over GLD all over again. People chose to play both classes not just MRD.

**Vactus** · 10-30-2013 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Taemek

I'm not interested in tanking as good as a PLD because I happen to like my DPS in tank spec and out of tank spec. If that is altered, it defeats the purpose of playing a Warrior unless they can make Warriors have a DPS stance so we can melee DPS also.

There is math out there that shows PLD has better dps than a WAR. Even so, the dps difference isn't large. Not enough to be excited over anyways.

As for the rest, I had only read a translation and it might have been a rough trans.

**Gamemako** · 10-30-2013 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by Vactus

I could have sworn Yoshi said that instead of nerfing content or PLD, they'd be buffing (adjusting) WAR. A single PLD can tank Cadecus... something that wasn't intended.

Explicitly so. Amazingly, despite it being quoted to him several times in the past, Taemek still hasn't read it. Here's Reinhart's translation again:

y; people are saying war is weak so I wanted to go over that
y; people are comparing war to pld, the main part is the bahamut 1 and 4
y; this is our miss, and I apologize, the boss monster has buffs
y; once the boss has 3 buffs stacked up the tank won’t be able to pass
y; it’s set up that way
y; but PLD is able to live through it and that wasn’t supposed to be that way
y; PLD was able to pass that, and we’re talking about what to do this
y; changing the system isn’t good, so we have to make it where WAR can do what PLD can do
y; so we’ll make it where WAR can be good here as well
y; I went to Ifrit HM with WHM, tank needs to stop everything
y; they need to stop eruption and all that so I think it’s really hard to tank
y; the plan we had for Brutal Swing which uses GCD and PLD can use over
y; so it takes longer to use, so we’ll make adjustments to make it faster
y; people also are testing 2rath and use gensho (english?? the healing one)
y; You should wait for heal before using gensho as you get more heal
y; PLD has high VIT but with WAR you can heal about same amount and if you have wrath on you’ll take much more.
y; if you heal after wrath the buff is gone so you’ll get lower hp
y; how you run through the pattern is really hard
y; for healers if the WAR uses gensho it’s hard to heal
y; for that reason people think WAR is softer tank than PLD
y; so we think this is bit too hard so we’ll be making changes in 2.1
y; we got about 7 topics to change for WAR
y; just because we had the issue where PLD was able to pass the bahamut with this method
y; we need to make these changes now.
y; we won’t make it harder on the content so please don’t worry

Emphases mine. WAR is being buffed and PLD is not being nerfed -- this is stated explicitly, no interpretation needed.

Originally Posted by Taemek

The thing people don't seem to be aware of is, if Warriors were made to be able to tank as efficiently and effectively as a PLD, why would anyone then take a PLD over a Warrior, and then Warriors are in the same predicament as PLD's and getting doubled up on in Coil and any other future content because now we tank as good as PLD's but do more DPS as well in the process, so now PLD's will be here crying nerf Warriors DPS OR buff PLD's to Warriors DPS..... it is a never ending vicious circle... I'm not interested in tanking as good as a PLD because I happen to like my DPS in tank spec and out of tank spec. If that is altered, it defeats the purpose of playing a Warrior unless they can make Warriors have a DPS stance so we can melee DPS also.

WAR has no DPS difference as when not tanking compared to PLD -- they are identical, and this is by design. PLD as OT w/WAR MT is highest single-target damage potential, outstripping 2xWAR. WAR has a fairly small DPS difference that pretty well evaporates with any WAR in the party.

//EDIT:

Originally Posted by Vactus

As for the rest, I had only read a translation and it might have been a rough trans.

The translation is fine.

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