Thread: Warrior "buff" in 2.1: not what we are expecting?

Here's what I'm expecting:



Inner Beast will be changed so that it's not harder to heal WARs ( or as hard it is to heal them currently ) after using it. How it is currently WAR uses all their Wrath stacks and all their healbuffs when using Inner Beast. So what they can do is to give Inner Beast a "Cost" of <5 Wrath. So Instead of using 5 Wrath Stacks for Inner Beast you use 3. That way you can combo your way back up to five instead of using Infuriate or having to wait 8 cool downs to get your wrath stacks back. So that would make it easier.

Another thing people were confused about was WHEN to use Inner Beast. So something that could make it easier is making Innerbeast heal a flat percentage. That way you and your healers know that once you get down to a certain number the WAR can heal.

Stuns will be made so that the stun goes off more reliably. This is due to long animations. WAR in general is too much of a showy class. It's so animation-y that it gets in the way of play. Brutal Swing is just one of the issues. Overpower is another. I'm a WAR and I'm waving my axe around! Yeehaw! Yeah uh that's great but it's point less. I expect Overpower gets a shorter animation. Maybe Butchers block but that one doesn't seem as excessive.

I expect a buff to Foresight (but not additional cross class skills from PLD). I hope it becomes a flat damage reduction, similar to rampart.

As for the other stuff All bets are off!

Honestly the one I kind of hope for is to have Steel Cyclone generate Threat and not use Wrath or use less wrath. Other than that I hope that they change Unchained to be a stance rather than a ability like Sword Oath. Currently it is pretty pointless.

How about everyone just put their pants back on, and just *wait* (I know, hard concept to grasp) for specific details/patch notes/2.1 update to happen, and then you can go critique the actual changes instead of spinning up dozens of these threads to rage about speculation, rumors, and misinformation.

Originally Posted by Hitokirinomad

First, it makes perfect sense to do a comparison of Sword Oath to non Defiance, and Defiance to Shield Oath, as those are the equivalent states (OT v MT). However, there is a difference of FIFTY strength in Paikis's comparison. So yes, when using his high emnity combo he would pull quite easily from the PLD. What he is missing is that in Sword Oath, with that disparity in gear and stats, as a PLD he would *also* quite easily pull aggro. So it is in no way a valid comparison. It's not 'grasping at straws', it's called 'reducing variables'. Part of that math thing that apparently real life doesn't account for. Hell, even without the gear, I doubt the PLD is using Spirits Within on cooldown (for ADS) because it has to be saved for silence DR, which will further decrease the PLD's damage.

To be clear, the argument isn't that PLD outdamages WAR, the argument is 'given equal gear level, spec, and skill of players, WAR DPS is not significantly higher enough than PLD to justify the mitigation difference.' If WAR DPS potential was actually higher than PLD DPS potential by 20-40%, it would at least be something to point to. But that is not the case. Anecdotal evidence of OT doing more damage than MT means..not much.

Hmm not sure if you are keeping up, your argument is all over the place and incoherent.

Firstly, the anecdotal evidence of the OT doing more then the MT means everything. Unless he changes his gear out to tank in, no variables have changed, so the same DPS he does as OT will be the same DPS he does as MT. Using ADS was a bad example imho, however if a fight lasted an infinity amount of time, the Warrior would have the longer legs on enimity generation due to simply being a higher DPS tank class. It is safe to assume here, seeing he has VIT + Parry socketed in to those so called "DPS trinkets" which by the way have been proven to be BiS for Warriors as per the http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...zation-for-WAR thread, that he does Tank in that gear spec.

Secondly, its a real time scenario, not real life and the argument we are referring too is people comparing Sword Oath vs. Defiance to justify the reason why PLD's out dps Warriors, see the issue here? Who, as a PLD tanks in Sword Oath where it matters? Parsing real time is all the matters unless your math is able to calculate wait times, jousting, movement and all the other unpredictable situations that arise during a fight. In saying that, yes it is possible to maximize your DPS by minimizing certain variables, however math has been displayed on these forums particularly as a 100% consistent up time, which we all know does not happen in a real time environment.

Thirdly, assuming you know the STR wall limits, he might be only utilizing 35 of that 50 STR. As such I don't think anyone has concrete anecdotal evidence that supports true high values as yet.

The same math you all claim to be true here can be applied here to find the gap between the Paladin and Warrior in question. Assume he does 40% more DPS then said Paladin using said gear specs. Even if the Paladin closed those gaps to either mirror the same gear spec, he still would not come close to even remotely closing that 40% gap at this point in the game, there is simply not enough stat gain to be had in the small amount of stats that are different. You are talking about, maybe closing it by 10% at most and that's doing rough figures in my head.

I am still waiting for those parses if anyone feels keen on doing them, test dummies await a beating. Pretty easy to do the parses I believe. Just put them both in full DL gear, same quality weapon Relic or Relic +1 and have at it for a few hours on the test dummies. Post the parsed data on the forums.

Originally Posted by Vactus

There is math out there that shows PLD has better dps than a WAR. Even so, the dps difference isn't large. Not enough to be excited over anyways.

As for the rest, I had only read a translation and it might have been a rough trans.

That math is useless. I use both classes and WAR does out DPS the PLD. For some reason I can clear AK faster with my WAR than with a PLD.

Originally Posted by dark494

How about everyone just put their pants back on, and just *wait* (I know, hard concept to grasp) for specific details/patch notes/2.1 update to happen, and then you can go critique the actual changes instead of spinning up dozens of these threads to rage about speculation, rumors, and misinformation.

I agree, I like pants.

Originally Posted by Taemek

Yeah..........truth is you guys are grasping at straws now days and the fact remains that Warriors out DPS PLD's by a considerable margin, end of story.

Honestly, I've got no idea what *you're* talking about and bringing up the comparison with a single tank that you already know that you can regularly pull off of because you outgear him doesn't really say much. While in Shield Oath, using a relic weapon and a mix of AK and DL gear, I've pulled threat off of a full DK PLD with relic +1. While it's pretty hard to screw up RoH, it's pretty obvious that a lot of people end up doing just that, whether by not using FoF, CoS, and SW like they should be or leaving gaps in between attacks rather than queueing up a new attack right before the reset timer finishes.

I've pulled off of WARs in better gear on my PLD and pulled off of PLDs in better gear on my WAR. I've done the same when I'm playing the same class as the other tank. I've had to restrain myself when running with pretty much every tank I've ever paired up with because I know exactly how to maximize my damage and enmity generation and a lot of people *don't*, even when they're supposedly amazing tanks that have never had enmity problems before (and, yes, I've run with FCs that say that their tank's enmity is amazing only to find out that they get completely bowled over by me).

Using your single data point means absolutely nothing. Half of the PLD DPS parses that I've seen mean nothing either because there are a *lot* of PLDs that are completely and utterly incompetent yet still progress because doing the absolute minimum to progress while playing a PLD is remarkably simple. When parses start existing that don't suck massively and we start collecting data points from similar skilled and geared PLDs and WARs, the question of practice v. theory will be answered but, having played both a prolific amount with numerous other tanks and solo as well, I haven't noticed *any* kind of evidence that suggests appreciable deviation from the theory, assuming that the PLD isn't just facerolling their way to victory.