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  1. #1
    Player
    Tanaya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    214
    Character
    Tanaya Makers
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50

    White Mage: You should DPS and here's why.

    I've been noticing a trend in dungeons where healers will often just stand there because the party doesn't need to be healed. Some will even jump around in a circle to lol and go "I'm bored D:". Initially, I was only a PLD so I figure as long as I'm healed, everything is good. Now that I've played White Mage to 50 (undoubtely my second favorite job), this is my new response.

    So today I'd like to show some insight on what a White Mage can do in dungeons. The abilities highlighted here will be Divine Seal, Stone II, Holy, and Cleric Stance.

    Divine Seal

    Why do I not see this ability used more? Why? WHY!?

    It's a 60 second recast. That means this ability will almost always be up and ready to use once per pull. This is a 30% Heal Boost to all healing abilities, including HoTs. You see where I'm going with this?

    Regen on the Tank after he uses Flash/Overpower, and never see his HP drop below 90% because you're awesome. Depending on what you're fighting he might take a bit more damage, but that becomes a non-issue once a mob or two dies.

    Cleric Stance

    "Tanaya you're crazy! That lowers my healing by--"



    Since you have a Divine Seal'd Regen up, you have plenty of time to pull up Cleric Stance and DPS. Cleric Stance swaps MND and INT values while increasing your damage of attack spells by 10%. Since your MND is very well-stacked, your damage takes a considerable jump.

    "But what if I need to heal!? D:"

    Turn it off.

    Stone II

    At 170 Potency, it's not as potent as what one would like, but when you consider the cast time (one full GCD), you realize that this skill is actually really strong. When you're able to DPS for a large period over time, the damage adds up to satiable numbers.

    This is the main spell to use for trash mobs and boss fights. Use it and love it.

    Holy

    By far our strongest spell. 240 Potency(!!!) and is AoE. This is Divine Retribution, The Reckoning, the spell that parties hates so much.

    But while it is strong, it costs a lot of MP. At level 50, the MP cost is 532. Doesn't sound like much at first, but with too much overuse, it can drain your MP fast, which is a no-no regardless of your playstyle. This also, ironically, has the tendency to pull threat off your tank because they need time to build enmity (or they don't Flash/Overpower enough). This is why unless the party is coordinated to go AoE heavy (2-3 pulls at once), I don't use Holy unless I have Shroud of Saints ready to lower my enmity.

    Role Discrepancy

    "Tanaya, shouldn't the DPS be the one dealing the damage and the Healers just heal?"

    This is a fair question, one that I'll answer without a snarky remark.

    There are two things damage does that people subconsciously knows but doesn't acknowledge.

    -More damage means you don't need to heal as much.
    -More damage means faster clear times in dungeons.

    On the case with Holy, this spell strongly emphasizes these two points. Being able to kill a mob, while the rest of mobs are at below half their HP means significantly less healing overall. With Holy's stun effect, you don't have to worry about your tank taking more damage than necessary. Stone II does this as well but on a lesser basis. It's a safer spell to use thanks to it's cast time and low MP cost.

    To put it in shorter words: You're a healer. Your role is to heal, but you also have the tools to deal damage. If your contribution makes a difference, you should find ways to use it.

    I wouldn't expect (and advise against) White Mages going DPS mode at all on Titan HM or Coil, because it requires you to watch your entire party's HP pool and heal effectively. But dungeons like AK/WP or even dungeons like Satasha when you don't even have Regen, the focus on healing is considerably less.

    Analyze your party, and your situation. Figure out what you need to do. I feel this is the best way to play White Mage.

    Random Tips

    -Presence of Mind is a 50% Spell Speed increase. Use this at the beginning of every boss battle to frontload your Stone II damage.
    -Aero II and Aero are DoTs, and their combined damage deals more than a single Stone II. Using this before you switch out of Cleric Stance is a good way to keep damage going while you have to heal.
    -You can turn off Cleric Stance as soon as the cast bar completes. You do not need to wait for the animation to finish.
    -Swiftcast is on a 1 minute timer. Use it for more than just Raise. (And if you don't have it, why are you playing White Mage?)

    ---------

    I'd like to add a few disclaimers to my controversial choice of words. The two quotes below sums it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Araye View Post
    She just likes to give the tanks a challenge, tossing out Holy when I'm barely holding aggro on five pulls in SV. :P

    I am now nearly a lvl 50 WHM. Since putting all my stats in MND and using cleric stance, I do double (haven't done the exact math - don't care to) my PLD's DPS (put all my stats in VIT) just using Stone 2.

    WHMs, remember that when you see me struggling to hold aggro as PLD.

    As PLD, I watch as the healer stands there, looking for chests, doing the moon walk because they are bored: main reason I tank in dungeons rather than heal. If you want to contribute to DPS, cool. I think Tanaya's reasoning is sound, but Tanaya is also an experienced healer. If you're new to healing and do not know all the ramifications of your actions, just heal me.

    Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyomih View Post
    It depends a lot on your gear. If you are just barely ok with whatever dungeon you run you don't want to dps and use your MP pool if you struggle with it to begin with. It also depends on what level you are. Generally if you just hit Brayflox level you don't really have time to dps unless you outgear the dungeon. Or the rest if your group outgears the dungeon.

    The same is true for lvl 50 dungeons.
    I am at a point now where I can easily DPS on trash and on bosses in AK but I am switching in and out of Cleric Stance and it's due to my gear and the gear of the rest of pugs at this point.
    So, while your advice is valid it's mostly valid if you don't have to deal with tanks getting hit by a lot of damage constantly and if you don't have to deal with MP issues.
    Again, it depends on gear and level but I agree that a healer should not stand around and suck their thumbs if they have a lot of downtime. I also don't see why anyone would do this. It's boring as hell and makes me feel like the group is carrying me.

    On top, as mentioned above, it also really depends on how confident you are in reading incoming damage, encounters and how experienced you are as a healer.
    (60)
    Last edited by Tanaya; 11-02-2013 at 02:04 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Hulan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    866
    Character
    Alec Temet
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 70
    Rather than debate your main point - because I agree with it - I'd like to steal this thread to ask a relevant question. As a SCH, I always consider it my duty to throw on extra DoTs and Ruin IIs (this actually has a directly beneficial effect on my healing, as it causes blind). But until recently, I have been avoiding using Cleric Stance, because I found it to be unreliable that it will turn off when I want it to in hectic situations. So what methods do other WHMs and SCHs use to make sure that their Cleric Stance is up when they want it, and down when they don't?

    Turning it on is fine, as there is a GDC cooldown preventing you from accidentally turning it back off (and because turning Cleric Stance off isn't the end of the world). But for myself, I find that if I hit Cleric Stance to turn it off, it takes a few beats to register - not even a second, mind you, but just long enough that it is noticeable. That leaves me with two options, spam it until it turns off, potentially hitting it again turning it back on, or watching it like a hawk to make sure it actually turns off, taking much needed concentration away from actually healing.
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    Pharazon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    139
    Character
    Pharazon Kensaki
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulan View Post
    *snip*
    Cant double check right now but I'm pretty sure since its a buff you can just click it off in your buff bar. Never had to do it that way but seems reasonable enough to make sure you dont turn it back on
    (3)

  4. #4
    Player
    Tzain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    142
    Character
    Tzain Nival
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 60
    So, I've never really tried playing with Cleric stance dancing in a group (most of my gear while leveling had heavy int and mind on the same piece so the difference was not huge when reversed).

    My first instinct after reading your post was to think "How can I macro-manage the stance dance" and since im more partial to Aero DOT stacking than Stone DD I figured I'd go with this.

    /ac "cleric stance" <me>
    /ac "aero II" <tt>
    /wait X (I don't know how long the waits going to have to be to not clip the aero II since im not at home but I'm sure I'm going to need it.)
    /ac "aero I" <tt>
    /ac "cleric stance" <me>

    Does this have any glaring errors to any ones eyeballs?
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    Hulan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    866
    Character
    Alec Temet
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 70
    That would probably actually work, since Cleric Stance is off GDC, but still has a GDC cooldown. I'll have to try it out when I get home.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    HarleenQuinzel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    39
    Character
    Harleen Quinzel
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Tzain View Post

    /ac "cleric stance" <me>
    /ac "aero II" <tt>
    /wait X (I don't know how long the waits going to have to be to not clip the aero II since im not at home but I'm sure I'm going to need it.)
    /ac "aero I" <tt>
    /ac "cleric stance" <me>
    Even though Cleric stance is off the Global cooldown I am pretty sure there is a small period of time after use of abilities such as these where you cannot cast. As such it would not smoothly transition between the aeros into the cleric stance and vice versa. I could be mistakin, the second issue however would be the fact that Cleric stance has a time period after initial use where it cannot be dropped. So this would require your Aero II and Aero I to have to have a total cast time of greater than the cleric stance down time which I believe to be 5 seconds.
    (0)
    Last edited by HarleenQuinzel; 10-25-2013 at 02:10 AM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Hulan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    866
    Character
    Alec Temet
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 70
    To clarify, the problem that I have with Cleric Stance is pretty much solely on bosses. On regular dungeon monsters, there is enough breathing room to double check to make sure Cleric Stance isn't misbehaving before casting Ad Loquium. On bosses though, if I want to support the DDs (which is sometimes very important, especially on fights where the boss tends to move, keeping Miasma up can greatly improve survivability), sometimes there just isn't enough time to be careful about my current stance. I'm not saying that there actually is a problem. It's entirely possible I'm doing something horribly wrong, but that's why I asked the question.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player
    Warchild_Zek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    26
    Character
    Warchild Zek
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    If all you need is a buffed regen and stoneskin, why even bother stance dancing? Just DPS and use gimped heals.
    (4)

  9. #9
    Player
    Nettle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    58
    Character
    Vinyth Arcanis
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    If you hit Cleric Stance to turn it off too quickly after using an ability, it doesn't register. You have to wait about a second after your last used GCD ability to reliably always get it turned off, or in other words about halfway between GCDs. This isn't unlike any other class who uses abilities off the GCD. The only difference is you can't spam it because you will immediately reapply it. Your timing has to be exact. You can practice it on your own by curing yourself and toggling the stance in between casts.

    I stance dance on bosses (I can afford to stay in it on trash with fairy heals). Once you get the feel for the right timing, its very reliable.
    (1)
    Last edited by Nettle; 10-25-2013 at 02:37 AM.

  10. #10
    Player
    peaches's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    384
    Character
    Egwene Al'vere
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 50
    For the most part, I disagree. Yea, if you are able to and can spare it, toss out some DPS. But for the most part, the DPS classes can handle it no problem at all.

    As a healer, even against trash mobs the tank can drop VERY quickly and you really don't have the luxury of wasting GCD's on an enemy. What if the tank gets crit, or there's just a big hitting enemy, and BAM, he's at half health while you're in the middle of a cast, and the trigger the GCD? You can no doubt recover, but you shouldn't be in that situation. Yes, you CAN dps sometimes, but its very situational, and telling people that they should be DPSing is wrong, because they will find out by themselves the appropriate times to do so rather than make them think its something they should be constantly doing.

    On top of all that, you have MP issues. Even as a Scholar where I have nearly infinite MP I have to watch how hard I DPS in some situations, because if something goes wrong and the fight gets hairy, I don't want to be stuck with 1/2-3/4 HP and need to try to heal everybody up while Enmity is everywhere.
    (19)

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