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  1. #1
    Player
    EternityFate's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    248
    Character
    Eternity Godslayer
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 60

    FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE FIX THIS MASSIVE LAG PROBLEM!

    Before you go blame me or something i already read all post about this issue.

    i can't play this game and i'm VERY desapointed because i NEVER see ANY lag in all others games that i play!(UPDATED LIST AND TESTED AGAIN)

    -Final fantasy XI(ohh no lag in ff XI! amazing!)
    -Battlefield 3
    -Crysis 3
    -Atlantlica online
    -WoW
    -Diablo 3
    -Guild wars 2
    -Aion
    -Blade & Soul( IN THE F* KOREAN SERVER AND NO LAG)
    -can watch all videos in 1080p(and play 2 games at once)2
    need say more? -.-

    There is a lot of peoples with the same problem and i see SE don't even REPLY your posts about this F* lag issue. i love this game but i work and study 90% of the day... after finish my work and school, i want play but HOW I CAN PLAY THIS GAME IF I CAN'T EVEN DO A DECENT DUGEON! today i form an AK party and ALL PLAYERS INSIDE GOT THE GIANTEST LAG OF THE WORLD! serious NEVER SQUARE WILL READ IT? please don't release this 2.1 patch before fix all that lag problem. I pay for a game that i can't play at all

    So... IS MY PROBLEM OR SE PROBLEM? we can't acept this anymore! and please don't say "ah i never got lag so i'ts your internet conection" go to H... is not only me posting about this issue.

    *Please don't say to me send message in suport(their will say RESET THE MODEM)
    *Please don't say" ah you need close facebook and others softwares like skype"(-.-)
    *Please don't say to upgrade my network drivers
    *Please i not want a war... i just want a OFICIAL reply...and yes... the help of all players if is possible to fix it or not.

    And sorry for my bad english i'm Brazilian and my native language is portuguese.
    All replyes is welcome! let's see if is possible fix this or not because SE don't give us a shi.... ATENTION about this.

    *UPDATED just read players with the same problem:

    Severe packet loss connecting to Balmung (yet again...) - WinMTR trace included
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...trace-included

    lack of content,tones of lag,broken instances..
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...oken-instances..

    Lag lag lag
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...31-Lag-lag-lag

    Constant Lag Spikes
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ant-Lag-Spikes

    Ridiculous Lag
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Ridiculous-Lag

    Connection issues with PC
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...issues-with-PC

    Unacceptable Lag / ISP Throttle (Petition)
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...%28Petition%29 THIS YOU NEED READ!

    Lag ... stutter steps to gumbi walks to crashing
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ks-to-crashing

    Please sort this annoying latency spiking problem
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...piking-problem

    Server-side "lag" not just EU
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ag-not-just-EU

    Random Lag spikes as of 10/26/13 12:00pm EST
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...13-12-00pm-EST

    SE please make a statement about the lag
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-about-the-lag

    Stop ignoring your NA/EU community.
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...A-EU-community.

    Network Stability Worse After Maintenance
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...er-Maintenance


    this is just a SMAll SEARCH ^^
    (48)
    Last edited by EternityFate; 11-02-2013 at 02:37 PM. Reason: UPDATED some information

  2. #2
    Player
    Kellogs4toniee's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    98
    Character
    Zikathia Liande
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 50
    I understand your pain man =( I get it majority of time after 6 PM when my raid group is raiding. I am at the point right now where raiding is the main thing I do, so to have these 3-4 second throttlings constantly makes it unplayable.

    Unfortunately I am seriously considering leaving the game until hear these issues have been fixed.
    (8)

  3. #3
    Player
    Raist's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    2,457
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    Raist Soulforge
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 60
    It's a multi-level issue that is not entirely on SE's end, not entirely within their power nor responsibility to resolve--so you need to bring the ISP's in to help out (yours, theirs, and all the others in between).

    Open a support ticket with both your ISP and SE, giving specifics about your connection---preferably including the results of a tracert to the 199.xxx.xxx.xxx IP your client is using. At the very least, include the IP address of the server your game actually is using and let SE know who your ISP is and what city/state. This gives them a glimpse of where you are coming from and going to, and affords a means to at least have a list of all the players in between you and SE. With any luck, it may provide some clues as to a potential choking point in route they can investigate and hopefully get at least that part of your problem resolved.
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    Ulf's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    Ulf Helfric
    World
    Goblin
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    Gladiator Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Raist View Post
    It's a multi-level issue that is not entirely on SE's end, not entirely within their power nor responsibility to resolve--so you need to bring the ISP's in to help out (yours, theirs, and all the others in between).

    Open a support ticket with both your ISP and SE, giving specifics about your connection---preferably including the results of a tracert to the 199.xxx.xxx.xxx IP your client is using. At the very least, include the IP address of the server your game actually is using and let SE know who your ISP is and what city/state. This gives them a glimpse of where you are coming from and going to, and affords a means to at least have a list of all the players in between you and SE. With any luck, it may provide some clues as to a potential choking point in route they can investigate and hopefully get at least that part of your problem resolved.
    Folks have been doing this, and it is being ignored. I'm pretty close to cancelling my sub. We should not have to go past reporting this issue for some action to be taken. Sure, results may not be immediate, but SE could at least tell us they are looking into it.
    (11)

  5. #5
    Player
    LSkwallhart's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
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    13
    Character
    Squally Hart
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Raist View Post
    It's a multi-level issue that is not entirely on SE's end, not entirely within their power nor responsibility to resolve--so you need to bring the ISP's in to help out (yours, theirs, and all the others in between).

    Open a support ticket with both your ISP and SE, giving specifics about your connection---preferably including the results of a tracert to the 199.xxx.xxx.xxx IP your client is using. At the very least, include the IP address of the server your game actually is using and let SE know who your ISP is and what city/state. This gives them a glimpse of where you are coming from and going to, and affords a means to at least have a list of all the players in between you and SE. With any luck, it may provide some clues as to a potential choking point in route they can investigate and hopefully get at least that part of your problem resolved.
    So when every other game I play has absolutely no latency/lag issues, I should go out of my way to fix this multi-tiered issue myself?

    The game should work. Period.

    This is SE's problems, not the consumers. The latency in this game is not acceptable.
    (21)

  6. #6
    Player
    SKitso3az's Avatar
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    Frozen Fire
    World
    Diabolos
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    Pugilist Lv 27
    Quote Originally Posted by LSkwallhart View Post
    So when every other game I play has absolutely no latency/lag issues, I should go out of my way to fix this multi-tiered issue myself?

    The game should work. Period.

    This is SE's problems, not the consumers. The latency in this game is not acceptable.
    I completely agree with this person. At the very most our job would be to let them know there is an issue and it's their job to acknowledge it and fix it. While I understand this may be a complicated issue they should at least make a stickied post about it saying they understand. Me and my friends have been experiencing this stuff since launch. It's so bad during prime time that I refuse to do any content that would be highly effected by lag (Garuda / Titan HM) because lag will kill and waste everyone's time. Unfortunately, this will eventually cause a lot of their playerbase to quit since I assume a lot of people can only play during prime time hours. Lets hope they resolve this issue sooner rather than later (game hasn't been out that long after all).
    (2)

  7. #7
    Player Kosmos992k's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
    Location
    Ul'Dah
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    4,349
    Character
    Kosmos Meishou
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by LSkwallhart View Post
    So when every other game I play has absolutely no latency/lag issues, I should go out of my way to fix this multi-tiered issue myself?

    The game should work. Period.

    This is SE's problems, not the consumers. The latency in this game is not acceptable.
    Actually, you're wrong. The routing of traffic varies from server to server, just because game X suffers no lag, that doesn't mean game Y will be lag free - because the routing of traffic to/from game Y's servers is different. If the ISPs haven't yet figured out optimized routing for the SE data center, the users, ISPs and SE have to get together to make it happen. SE can work with their service provider and backbone provides on the Net, but the consumer ISPs have to be contacted by the consumer about the problem. Even if SE fixed everything they have influence over to perfection, a poor ISP on your end could still kill their game for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ervin View Post
    @Raist: I know of all that, it's just not a viable answer to calm the community, or a justification for poor service, since this is a very very rare issue in MMO gaming. As I said, no matter what game I've played on US based datacenters, I've never had lag issues like these. SE are cheap since they wont open an EU datacenter, which would infact smooth things out alot.
    \

    Hmmm... actually according to the ping data I've seen, many EU users get better ping/tracert times than US players, so moving the data center would not seem to be a wholly necessary thing.
    (2)
    Last edited by Kosmos992k; 10-25-2013 at 03:39 AM.

  8. #8
    Player
    Ervin's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    86
    Character
    Ervin Yggvin
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    @Kosmos992k:

    SE has plenty of info on effected ISPs, countries, routes etc. And more than likely they will only need to work things out with the head company of each ISP who will then forward the info to it's branches in other countries. Like contacting Telia in Sweden would most likely solve issues for everyone using any form of Telia daughter service in the EU aswell as solving issues connected to other companies aswell that use the Telia stations in their services i.e Bredbandsbolaget/Telenor. Unless they recently got their own lines, which I havent bothered checking since I've never had issues before.

    And even if we the EU players get better ping than the US, it's no excuse for not giving the EU their own datacenter, we pay money for the service so should get optimal service for our region and not just US servers marked as EU. We pay the same amount as the US but we get less. I would be fine with a lower monthly fee aswell. It's also further proof that something is bonkers with the NA datacenter if EU players can get better ping, which should be close to physically impossible due to distance around the globe. Or that the US have shitty stoneage internet, still no exsuce to why EU pays the same for less.

    If we had EU servers we would sit at half the current ms or lower. Place them in germany and I'd sit at 35ms most likely, which is alot different than 150ish ms. It's a QoL thing which we pay for and should have.
    (1)
    Once more into the fray. Into the last good fight I'll ever know. Live and die on this day. Live and die on this day.

  9. #9
    Player
    Ervin's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    86
    Character
    Ervin Yggvin
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    @Raist: All other games work perfectly fine with zero lag for most of us that have XIV lag issues. Why should we have to try and fix this on our own when we pay SE monthly to keep things like this is check. This isnt some F2P game where the company can do it at their own pace. This is a sub-fee game where customer service aswell an a smoothly working product is a must. Still both of those things are clearly lacking here.

    1. Engine isnt optimized, some zones have terrible issues.
    2. EU dont have their own servers, but we pay just as much each month as the JP and US but we get worse preformance. Even without the nighttime lag, we still have delay compared to JP/US players.
    3. Lack of CSR communication, both in-game and on forums.

    There is nothing to justify SE ignoring these issues since they get our money to solve these things. Currently this game works worse than some F2P or B2P MMOs out there and still they want 11 Euro per month... SE should just man up and give the EU their own Datacenter. It would take the stress off the NA datacenter and solve many lag issues for the EU playerbase.

    I'm currently at the edge myself, thinking strongly about quitting. When you pick an sub-fee game you expect it to have a sub-fee game prefomrance like EQ/WoW/DaoC etc had and not be below the current F2P level of preformance.
    (14)
    Last edited by Ervin; 10-23-2013 at 10:12 PM.

  10. #10
    Player
    Raist's Avatar
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    Raist Soulforge
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    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Ervin View Post
    @Raist: All other games work perfectly fine with zero lag for most of us that have XIV lag issues. Why should we have to try and fix this on our own when we pay SE monthly to keep things like this is check. This isnt some F2P game where the company can do it at their own pace. This is a sub-fee game where customer service aswell an a smoothly working product is a must. Still both of those things are clearly lacking here.

    1. Engine isnt optimized, some zones have terrible issues.
    2. EU dont have their own servers, but we pay just as much each month as the JP and US but we get worse preformance. Even without the nighttime lag, we still have delay compared to JP/US players.
    3. Lack of CSR communication, both in-game and on forums.

    There is nothing to justify SE ignoring these issues since they get our money to solve these things. Currently this game works worse than some F2P or B2P MMOs out there and still they want 11 Euro per month... SE should just man up and give the EU their own Datacenter. It would take the stress off the NA datacenter and solve many lag issues for the EU playerbase.

    I'm currently at the edge myself, thinking strongly about quitting. When you pick an sub-fee game you expect it to have a sub-fee game prefomrance like EQ/WoW/DaoC etc had and not be below the current F2P level of preformance.
    <and other posters here and in other threads that may not fully understand what I was talking about>

    Not sure some of you are grasping just how much routing can vary, and why it may very well be affecting only your FFXIV play (or maybe just a handful of games), but not all games and/or other internet activity. Your routing changes based on the routing policies/agreements amongst all the various ISP's across the regions you must cross to get to your requested endpoint. Perhaps this may help illustrate it better:

    I am located in South Carolina, roughly an hour from the the East Coast (about 70 Minutes inland from North Myrtle Beach)

    Trace to the server I connect with when I play on Midgard: 199.91.189.74, based in Montreal Canada
    http://myip.ms/info/whois/199.91.189.74
    Code:
    Tracing route to 199.91.189.74 over a maximum of 30 hops
    
    <Initial hops removed for security>
      4    28 ms    27 ms    27 ms  xe-7-0-0.rlghncpop-rtr1.southeast.rr.com [24.93.64.40]
      5    35 ms    36 ms    32 ms  107.14.19.44
      6    31 ms    31 ms     *     so-1-1-1.c1.buf00.tbone.rr.com [66.109.1.113]
      7    33 ms    31 ms    52 ms  ix-17-0.tcore2.AEQ-Ashburn.as6453.net [216.6.87.149]
      8    84 ms    84 ms    83 ms  if-2-2.tcore1.AEQ-Ashburn.as6453.net [216.6.87.2]
      9    82 ms    81 ms   140 ms  64.86.85.1
     10    87 ms    85 ms    84 ms  if-10-2.tcore1.TTT-Scarborough.as6453.net [64.86.32.33]
     11    82 ms    83 ms    84 ms  if-9-9.tcore1.TNK-Toronto.as6453.net [64.86.33.25]
     12   132 ms   117 ms    80 ms  if-7-2.tcore1.W6C-Montreal.as6453.net [66.198.96.61]
     13    92 ms    83 ms    89 ms  66.198.96.50
     14    80 ms    78 ms    79 ms  192.34.76.2
     15    86 ms    86 ms    85 ms  199.91.189.234
     16    87 ms    85 ms    81 ms  199.91.189.74
    
    Trace complete.
    ***Note that this routing has recently changed for me. We have been reporting issues to both our ISP's, and the ISP's we've detected having problems in routes. I used to be using Cogent in the middle of my routes, but am now on TATA. Just this weekend, I was shooting all the way to LA and going up, a couple weeks ago it was Seattle, before that, DC. The ISP's, NOT Square Enix, have been experimenting a lot trying to resolve the issues for us. Others have also noticed changes in their paths recently too.***

    Now, here's another sample trace to another IP in that SAME subnet, that I've seen others use for testing against their FFXIV Connection: 199.91.189.58
    http://myip.ms/info/whois/199.91.189.58
    Code:
    Tracing route to 199.91.189.58 over a maximum of 30 hops
    
    <initial hops removed for security>
      4    26 ms    27 ms    27 ms  24.93.64.128
      5    37 ms    31 ms    31 ms  107.14.19.42
      6    46 ms    31 ms    41 ms  ae-4-0.a0.lax91.tbone.rr.com [66.109.1.113]
      7    30 ms    32 ms    31 ms  ix-17-0.tcore2.AEQ-Ashburn.as6453.net [216.6.87.149]
      8    99 ms    85 ms    86 ms  if-2-2.tcore1.AEQ-Ashburn.as6453.net [216.6.87.2]
      9    95 ms    94 ms    86 ms  64.86.85.1
     10    86 ms    87 ms    86 ms  if-10-2.tcore1.TTT-Scarborough.as6453.net [64.86.32.33]
     11    87 ms    96 ms   109 ms  if-9-9.tcore1.TNK-Toronto.as6453.net [64.86.33.25]
     12    87 ms    84 ms    83 ms  if-7-2.tcore1.W6C-Montreal.as6453.net [66.198.96.61]
     13    86 ms    86 ms    84 ms  66.198.96.50
     14    87 ms    85 ms    85 ms  192.34.76.2
     15   107 ms    86 ms    88 ms  199.91.189.234
     16    85 ms    95 ms    85 ms  199.91.189.58
    
    Trace complete.
    Noticed what happened to my path right out the gate through hops 4,5, and 6. That is right after leaving my local segment, still under my ISP's control. I am being routed to the same exact TATA router, but I am taking a slightly different path from my modem to that point in Virginia. Something in my ISP's policies is causing that to happen--NOT SE.

    Note also there was an intermittent time out at one of the TWC/RR hops. There may be a congestion issue closer to home than to SE.

    Now, lets look at the routing from this same system to a couple of Blizzard's servers used for WoW and D3. I am not playing these games. The IP's are pulled from one of their own support articles I got a hit on when I googled for them:
    https://us.battle.net/support/en/art...g-a-traceroute

    Only using them as examples to further illustrate how easily routing can vary.

    WoW IP in Sandiego, CA: 63.240.161.189
    http://myip.ms/info/whois/63.240.161.189
    Code:
    Tracing route to 63.240.161.189 over a maximum of 30 hops
    
    <initial hops removed for security>
      4    29 ms    27 ms    27 ms  ge-3-0-0.rlghncpop-rtr1.southeast.rr.com [24.93.64.60]
      5    36 ms    35 ms    43 ms  ae-3-0.cr0.dca10.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.80]
      6    33 ms    31 ms    31 ms  ae0.pr1.dca10.tbone.rr.com [107.14.17.200]
      7    33 ms    36 ms    39 ms  ix-17-0.tcore2.AEQ-Ashburn.as6453.net [216.6.87.149]
      8    34 ms    32 ms    35 ms  192.205.34.245
      9    77 ms    75 ms    77 ms  cr2.wswdc.ip.att.net [12.122.134.186]
     10    75 ms    75 ms    79 ms  cr1.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.18.21]
     11    72 ms    71 ms    70 ms  gar18.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.99.21]
     12    75 ms    76 ms    74 ms  12.122.251.14
     13    69 ms    81 ms    71 ms  63.240.130.202
     14     *        *        *     Request timed out.
     15     *        *        *     Request timed out.
    <stopped the trace, as it appears the final IP may be set to not respond to ICMP echo request>

    WoW and D3 IP in Long Beach, CA: 12.129.209.68
    http://myip.ms/info/whois/12.129.209.68
    Code:
    Tracing route to 12.129.209.68 over a maximum of 30 hops
    
    <Initial hops removed for security>
      4    24 ms    27 ms    27 ms  24.93.64.128
      5    34 ms    31 ms    31 ms  107.14.19.44
      6    31 ms    35 ms    30 ms  ae1.pr1.dca10.tbone.rr.com [107.14.17.202]
      7    32 ms    66 ms    32 ms  ix-17-0.tcore2.AEQ-Ashburn.as6453.net [216.6.87.149]
      8    36 ms    35 ms    32 ms  192.205.34.245
      9    93 ms    95 ms   104 ms  cr2.wswdc.ip.att.net [12.122.134.186]
     10    93 ms    96 ms    95 ms  cr1.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.18.21]
     11    92 ms    96 ms    96 ms  cr2.dvmco.ip.att.net [12.122.31.85]
     12    95 ms    95 ms    95 ms  cr1.slkut.ip.att.net [12.122.30.25]
     13    97 ms    96 ms    95 ms  cr2.la2ca.ip.att.net [12.122.30.30]
     14    90 ms    92 ms    92 ms  gar20.la2ca.ip.att.net [12.122.128.181]
     15    93 ms    92 ms    92 ms  12.122.251.190
     16    93 ms    92 ms    92 ms  206.16.68.46
     17     *        *        *     Request timed out.
     18     *        *        *     Request timed out.
    <again, stopped trace as the final IP may be set to not respond to ICMP echo request>

    Notice, how once again, my initial routing at my ISP's level was adjusted slightly at the start--right after leaving my local segment.

    Again, that is MY ISP making that election, NOT Blizzard.

    Note how long the FFXIV trace stays within TATA's control all the way up into Montreal, while the Blizzard traces quickly get handed off to AT&T's networks after just a couple hops on TATA's segments. The FFXIV trace stayed in TATA's control for a space of 6 hops versus 2. In contrast, the Blizzard one was in ATT's control for the last 5 or more hops to Blizzard's network, compared to the last 2 or 3 segments that the SE traces are on Ormuco and/or SE's segments.

    As noted at those links with detailed info on the traces IP's... the ISP managing SE's service is Ormuco, while Blizzard is using AT&T.

    That extra ISP in the middle, TATA, with the as6453.net addresses is one of the groups where we have been seeing a LOT of problems crop up in route. It's not just XIV either. They are known offenders going back several years for many online games. My routing for XIV is using considerably more TATA segments then the ones for Blizzard. Considering TATA is one of the groups identified for having packet loss issues during high traffic, that means there is a much higher chance for me to hit a troubled segment with them. It should be noted also that it's not just TATA at fault here, they are just one of many that are having issues, and not isolated to one area either. But, it does however seem to be limited to a small group of ISP's having the most trouble keeping things stable.

    All of this differs simply because of the routing policies/agreements in place amongst the different ISP's involved. The ISP's are altering the routing in between as they try to shape the traffic to avoid high congestion or other potential failures. The problem is that we are seeing some of these groups appearing to flat out fail at that task, and we are seeing high packet loss or delays on their segments. This has a profound impact on the game's performance because of how error detection/correction is working on the networks. High packet loss and/or extensive delays causes a high retransmit rate, which severely delays the delivery of data. Keep in mind those errors/retransmits can happen in both directions too (client>server as well as server>client).

    The higher concentration of the use of these flaky routers simply causes us to be at greater risk for problems.

    THAT is why it is important to report the specifics on this issue when it is detected. We don't readily have a line of communication to these third parties (have to know where to dig it up). However, your ISP and/or SE's ISP may not only have contact info, but might have contracts with them. Have to understand that those third parties profit from their agreements with other ISP's--like your ISP and SE's ISP. Your ISP (as well as SE's) might be profiting as well because they are cheap to use. But, if it is impacting QoS and by extension Customer Satisfaction, then the affected ISP (again, yours and/or SE's) may gain the power to lean on groups like TATA and Cogent to clean up their act or risk loosing business. That can make this a very actionable situation IF you report the right info to the right people.

    Again, even if everything were running perfect at SE's end, you can still have massive lag and such because of these issues that are occuring in route. It actually creates a problem for SE to properly diagnose the problem, as they can't verify for sure if any adjustments made on their end fix a problem when testing is so negatively affected by these problems in route to their servers and/or back to your client.


    Now, as to the issue of whether users should bother gathering a quick trace and submitting it in a bug report to your ISP and SE, here's a real world example for you to consider:

    Take your car to a dealership, hand a service adviser your keys and simply say "It's broke, fix it.", then turn around, walk off, get in your friends car and ride off. Don't say anything else--don't answer any questions, don't give any details on just what is wrong, don't even give them your cell phone number to contact you once they find something. Just drop off the car, the keys, say "it's broke, fix it", and leave.

    Now, what is your reaction if you return a few hours later and they haven't done anything to your car? Or maybe they were so bold as to replace your cracked CV boots, but haven't fixed your particular problem?

    That is more or less what is happening in a lot of these threads.

    The proper way to get your car fixed is to provide as specific a description as you can on what is wrong. Things like when you notice it, specifically what you notice--you may even be able to tell them how to duplicate it so they can more effectively diagnose your specific problem.

    That is what providing something like a simple tracert does. It can potentially finger the who, what, when, where of the situation, and might even capture an actual point of failure for them to start from.

    Simply coming into a user forum and crying about it being broke and how SE needs to fix it really may not get you anywhere unless it's something the users can advise you on how to correct it. In the scope of these problems, if you provide some useful information on your problem, it MIGHT get forwarded up the chain, but ultimately you really need to file a proper bug report if you truly expect some action to be taken on this specific problem.
    (8)
    Last edited by Raist; 10-24-2013 at 10:16 AM.

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