armory system useless? Mythology Cap

[Kikosho]

Ok, so we'll inconvenience them to placate hardcores, makes sense.

It really is such an inconvenience to level each class individually. Should totally be possible to just gain exp on one job and transfer it to another job.

^ That is basically what you sound like in this argument.

[blowfin]

It really is such an inconvenience to level each class individually. Should totally be possible to just gain exp on one job and transfer it to another job.

^ That is basically what you sound like in this argument.

Huh?! Where are you pulling that BS from. I never said anything of the sort.

I'm talking about TOMES, your're talking about EXP! Different things last time I checked. Can someone verify?

Anyway, my point still stands, It seems you'd be happy to take away game flexibility from those who use DF to further your own wants and desires.

[Kikosho]

I know you're talking about tomes but the concept is still the same as earning exp for a class. You want exp for a class, you get on that class and you go kill things. You want tomes for a job, you get on that job and you go kill things. The main difference is that tomes is one of the ways to progress the job further after reaching the exp level cap.

[Raikki]

WORDS!

You can add as many exclamation points and capitalize as many words as you want, but you can never make the concept of "playing the job you want to gear" sound hardcore and unreasonable.

[Stormblossom]

There is a simple solution to both problems. Increase the cap of tomestones of mythology that can be earned by 300 for each combat class that reaches level 50, BUT make the number of tomestones that can be spent on gear for a specific class limited to 300 per week (Obviously this would need to 'add up' over time so you could actually buy things). That way people can farm their stones on whatever job they want, they aren't punished for using the armory system vs leveling alts, and their individual classes can progress apace. Heck, you could even give them a separate coil lockout per job.

Of course the reason that SE won't do this should be patently obvious to everyone. They charge us extra for multiple characters, they have to give SOME incentive for actually making more than one.

[blowfin]

I know you're talking about tomes but the concept is still the same as earning exp for a class. You want exp for a class, you get on that class and you go kill things. You want tomes for a job, you get on that job and you go kill things.

It's not the same concept, the system isn't like that currently. Being forced to farm tomes on the job you need them for would be a step backwards from what we currently have. The long DF queue for DPS makes it valid to go and farm for tomes on other jobs. This applies especially to people who don't have strong FC's or aren't geared enough for, or have no desire to join shout groups.

You can add as many exclamation points and capitalize as many words as you want, but you can never make the concept of "playing the job you want to gear" sound hardcore and unreasonable

I'm not trying to, you missed the point that flexibility would be taken away from people who never wanted the change in the first place.

[Dhex]

Whatever I think you people need a reality check - do you want the option to truly progress all your classes? We're talking the highest gear tier available (iL90). If you really want to progress all your classes to the highest possible pinnacle as it is currently it's physically impossible to do - and it will continue to be impossible if they stay with this model of gear progression.

Content needs to be diversified and gear needs to be side-grade if Square keeps the artificial gating in place.

Mythology Tomes


8 Jobs

1 with 13 Gear Slots
7 with 12 Gear Slots

Weekly cap 300/300

Cheapest Myth purchase: Thiv Mist @ 300 Tomes (3 Req Relic +1, Holy Shield +1 300/Curtana +1 600)

2 Weeks per Feet/Hands/Head/Accessories - 3 weeks per Body/Legs/Weapon

For Myth Bodies/Legs: [8*(3*3)]*2 = 72 weeks
For Relic +1 Weapons: 8*(3*3) = 72 weeks
For Myth Feet/Hands/Head/Accessories: 8(2*7) = 112 weeks

Totaling: 256 Weeks or 4.9 years at the current rate to Gear in full Myth (on all Jobs).

Allagan - Binding Coil

For arguments sake let's say you can only "Need" lot.

There are 6 sets of Allagan gear. Currently only 5 turns have been beaten and you can only run Coil once a week.

So 1 chance in 6 that you'll get a gear piece or weapon - in each turn (5) and there are 12 slots to fill with gear.

[(1/6)*5]/12 so .83 Weekly gear gain that is subject to RNG with roughly 72 pieces of gear to gather.


The main question is: Will content continue with upward progression in gear iLv? If in 6 months the Myth cost is the same and the tome cap is the same but other newer content is now giving iLv95/100 gear then this model is too slow for a multiclass system. They will either need to reduce the costs, increase the cap, or add individual Job tomes.

It's not hard - Limbus had requirements for how you upgraded gear and you could easily work on more than one thing at a time. The game may be new but they happen to have a treasure trove of experience to plumb for ideas on how players should be gathering gear, progressing, and what methods are effective to make the game less of a grind and more of an adventure.


Edit: I'd like to note that you can complete 5 Coil turns and 300 Myth cap in a single day <- Weekend gamer with a static. If you have capped all Jobs already that means you'll have played 256 Days out of those 256 Weeks there is no other progression for you to do if your Jobs are fully geared in iL70 Darklight/Crafted gear. That's 1536 Days where a capped out player would be literally sitting on their hands with nothing to do in game. Of course content will be expanded... hopefully quickly and frequently and there are a lot of achievements/items to collect - but these have no relation to current progression.

[Pooky]

I hear you. But I think there's way we could have a per-job cap and at the same time allow you to freely earn these tomes in a number of scenarios.

In another MMORPG there is a reputation system (you get reputation points by doing "stuff"). There are several reputations. When you do a dungeon, any dungeon, you get reputation points, and you're allowed to choose which of these reputations you want your points to go towards.

So consider this: in our case, you would be able to select "BRD" so that, no matter which class you play, no matter which dungeon you run, all the tomes earned would count towards your BRD cap (tomes that you could only use to buy BRD gear, obviously; they could be called "Mythology Tomes of the Bard"). When that cap reaches 300 (maxed), you'd then be able to get tomes for another job (again, 300 max for a given job, never more per week, for instance up to 300 "Mythology Tomes of the Paladin"), until the weekly reset happens and you can get back to earning tomes for your BRD.

Wouldn't that be nice?

I wouldn't mind that.

[Keyln]

Whatever I think you people need a reality check - do you want the option to truly progress all your classes? We're talking the highest gear tier available (iL90). If you really want to progress all your classes to the highest possible pinnacle as it is currently it's physically impossible to do - and it will continue to be impossible if they stay with this model of gear progression.

Content needs to be diversified and gear needs to be side-grade if Square keeps the artificial gating in place.

First off, your math is off on the myth tombstone count.

It takes 3135 to gear up one job with all five armor pieces of relic, or 25080 for relic armor for all jobs, plus 9750 for all accessories (which can be used by multiple jobs).

Add in the 7200 for +1ing all relic weapons (900 x 8), and that comes to a grand total of 42030 tombstones.

At the current cap of 300 per week, it'll take about 141 weeks, or about 2 and a half years to get all myth tombstone items.

Not quite the 4.3 years you were quoting up there.

You're also not taking into account the crafted armor, while it's ilevel70, it can be brought up to ilevel90 standards quite easily using materia (depending on luck, of course).

[GilbertLapine]

I said it puts those with more play time at a greater advantage, not that it explicitly disadvantages other players. It does nothing at all for those with less playtime, I repeat NOTHING AT ALL. Yet it enables those with more playtime to farm top tier gear nearly 24/7. Do you honestly not see a problem with that in terms of keeping things balanced? It would effectively create a massive gap in the middle between those with 1 job geared, and those with multiple jobs geared, which is a bad thing for the balance of the community. At the very least any change should be in favor of EVERYONE, not just the select few who have an inordinate amount of playtime.

Nope.. nope still not seein' it.