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  1. #1
    Player
    cherubims's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    12
    Character
    Zemus Highwind
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 50

    The Binding Coil "Issues" - 2.0

    Hi and welcome to the Revamped version of my coil thread.

    First and Foremost i would like to Apologise for my first thread as there were a number of issues that were not addressed and my calling out of some people were in bad taste.
    Rest assured it will not happen again.

    Disclaimer : This rant is not about any boss mechanics/challenges present or about the difficulty/ gameplay of the coil in general.


    Now without further ado lets get started.

    I will now go through some of the issues that i have come across while doing The Binding coils of Bahamut and i will also list out a number of potential solutions to these issues.
    These issues although not game breaking has been affecting the quality of life severely and taking the fun out of endgame progression as well as being a chore to do.

    Now as some of you may have noticed The binding coil of bahamut is special , special as in , its not only the hardest dungeon/raid currently ingame but its is also the only one which currently lacks a Duty finder , barring Chimera and Hydra ( these can be ignored as they need to be done once per relic as opposed to weekly content )
    This itself is not a big issue seeing that SE meant for this to be challenged by static groups of People in a similar FC willing to do endgame.

    But what happens if an individual is already a part of a FC before unlocking the binding coil? That individual has come across a crossroad 1.) Friends or 2.) Progression and is forced to make a choice
    a.) Abandon the current FC and search for a new one Dedicated exclusively for end game content.
    b.) Actively search out random groups of people / start and group with the help of shout /linkshells etc.

    Option A : This is currently impossible for me as i have friends with me in my FC and i do not wish to switch just for personal gain. So what is left?

    Option B : Now if you have organised manual parties as extensively as i have you will come to see that option b is not really an option but a major time sink with the way the Binding coil is currently set up atm. This coupled with the fact that i am usually only free during the weekend is not helping matters.
    Frankly 3+ hours of making a coil group is not cool and it does not add any value socially or gamewise to the content.( this will be explained more in detail in the following Faq section )

    Here in lies the core of the problem that needs to be addressed.

    I have listed out the following solutions to the problem with any one solving this issue entirely or majorly reducing its impact.They have been listed in an order of importance , with the first having the least issues and so on.
    If you think you know of a better one please make a post about it and i will update/add it to this list if i find it to be better than my own.

    1. New FC for endgame raids.

    This is the simplest soultion to the current problem without making any changes to the current mechanics that are currently in place. This new FC will be totally seperate from your regular Fc and will only be used for End game raiding. Special properties may be added for these FC's but that is not important at this time.

    2. Add Binding coil to duty finder.

    Adding the Binding coil does 2 things right , 1.) It gives players the freedom of accessability , freeing them from timed runs 2.) Gives them a larger pool of people seeing as the duty finder works across servers hence making the wait times shorter and more convenient for the coil.
    But it is not all positives and it has its faults like bad Game behaviour ( Please skip to Faq no 2 and no 5 for more detail )

    3. Shifting the weekly reset timer.

    This one is pretty simple , SE either manually changes the reset timer to the peak days to give more access or gives players the power to change it to where they are happy with it.( Skip to Faq no 4 for more detail )


    I can see what SE tried to do with the Binding coil seeing as some people pointed out that it followed the WOW model for hard( heroic ) dungeons , but in blindly following a set model without implementing standards of their own they have unknowingly segregrated part of the community and made it very hard if not impossible for some to access.

    In the past thread there had been several arguments against and also several questions raised , I made a callout to address this issue which i admit was in bad taste. So instead i have made a new section addressing the queries / questions and the diffrent arguments used based on what i have learned.
    This section will also be updated as new arguments are made and as new posts come in.


    FAQ and Arguments

    1. What about linkshells?
    A. Linkshells are a chatoom for like minded people , more akin to a casual group gathering to talk about random stuff ingame etc.

    An FC on the other hand are usually made up of a close knit group of friends and kinsmen of a similar mould who will help you through thick and thin, Issues and arguments are instantly dispelled in the midst of friends and loved ones.
    The same cannot be said for a linkshell group.

    A group created from a linkshell are also not obligated to help you in anyway and are at most a loose collection of acquaintances. ( similar to a DF if you will minus the bonuses , atleast you have queues in DF.)

    Edit : Some people are under the misconception that i dont use a linkshell for groups , for the record i am currently in 2 linkshells exclusively for end game progression and i have recently started a 3rd due to lack of options.

    Also the hierachy goes like this . FC > Linkshell > Friend list > Individual
    I suggested a seperate FC because that is the best option available , the linkshell although good pales in comparison to a good FC.


    2. SE have made the coil in such a way because they want the community to foster and group together in the old days , they want us to feel the camaraderie and fellowship that cannot be experienced from a Dutyfinder.
    A. A valid point and i agree ( The reason for my 1st point in asking for a new FC was because i want the feeling of closeness when completing a dungeon or raid ). The point although valid skips some vital aspects in this issue.

    a.)Blueprint : Currently with the layout and framework that is set for the coil , unless you have a dedicated group ( which i currently lack due to my FC being in the lower end of the spectrum ) , you have to actively search out random people to group with , who may or may not stick with you till you complete the instance. This coupled with the fact that coil is a weekly content ( Monday update ) makes it hard if not impossible for an individual who does not play on a daily basis to get a good group during the weekends when he does have time to play.Linkshells are only a temporary solution to this issue not a permanent one. This can be blamed largely on lack of options.

    b.)Stagnation : This is a side effect due to lack of options , so what can an individual do who is locked out of a good FC to do end game content? - The answer to this should be obvious. Shouting in toll and manually forming a group have become second nature for me and i have been doing this routine for the past 3 weeks. Now while this does not look bad , trust me it is. The amount of time spent looking for a full party from scratch can vary and range from 3-6 hours depending on your time zone and when you try. This not only creates a huge burden for the leader who manages the party but also puts him/ her in a position where failure is not an option. Peoples patience are also called into question as most are not willing to put in the time and the effort of waiting for a full party to form. And when it does come into place expect the lead and the rest of the crew to carry them through the dungeon as compensation for the effort they put into waiting for the party to form.This leads to the blame game and finally ultimately leads to stagnation , i have personally progressed 10 times more in the first few days of FFXIV ARR than all the 3 weeks doing coil put together.


    3. Duty Finder will bring in Toxicity that is plaguing the rest of the end game community !
    A. This is one issue that even i am concerned about , as much as the positives the Duty finder brings there are also negatives and nothing can break your day faster than some of the bad apples ( Trolls ) infesting the duty finder atm. Just one look at some of the antics pulled off in the Castrum Meridianum or The Praetorium is enough to put a bad taste in your mouth and question the validity of the DF.

    All i can say about this issue is "hope" , thats right there is nothing SE can do or say about this other than to request the community to gel together. The words and actions of people cannot be controlled and they are free to do as they please as long as they have the freedom to do so. So what happens then? Well just as in real life you would not stop the
    functioning of a bank in fear of a robbery that may or may not happen , i think the community should be given the benefit of the doubt. Implementing the Duty finder will not be without its issues , people will complain , people will troll , people will wipe , and people will cry.
    But ultimately i believe it will also benefit the vast majority of the community more than it will harm it , you have to believe and hope that for every bad apple there is also a good one.


    4. What Does it mean to shift the reset timer? Are you suggesting to alter the mechanic or remove it all together?
    A. In one word "No" , What i am suggesting as a backup alternative is to shift the timing of the weekly reset timer which is currently locked on a Monday. In my opinion SE should switch it to a more convenient time of the week , most preferably a saturday or a sunday ( since the majority of the people play on a weekend ).
    Of course i also realise that certain people will find it more convenient to have the reset on a Monday since they already have their group set up to play in certain timings or maybe they are free on that particular day. An alternative approach can be made to accomodate this by simply allowing us to freely lock ( set ) the timer to any day of the week for the reset.

    How will this work?
    a.) When you first unlock the coil you will get an option on when to set your weekly timer instead of the dialogue that gives you info on the monday lockout.
    b.) Once set the timer cannot be changed unless the week has passed ( full 7 days ) after which the user has the freedom to set it wherever he/she chooses.
    The user can for example : Set his reset to a tuesday and once he hits tuesday have an option to set it again at tuesday or wednesday or any other day he deems necessary. If he sets his clock for a wednesday he will have to wait an extra day ( 8 days) , and if he sets it on a thursday ( 9 days ) and so on for the next cycle so it will be beneficial for him/ her to have a set plan and not freely change the cycle since it affects his progression directly. FC's will actually benefit from this change as they can change their coil time to suit their company needs , hence making them even more efficient in coordinating runs as opposed to a set timer on monday.


    5. SE have made the Content inaccessable on purpose , not everything in a game is meant to be completed or played!!
    A. Yes yes a thousand times yes , i love this concept in its entirety , as a fan of Dark souls / demon souls i love the fact that SE have atleast tried to do something similar in an mmo no less. Too much of content is spoonfed these days and it devalues it in the process.And nothing would please me more than a return of some DIY / hardcore.
    The problem here is that their heart is there but the implementation is wrong.

    Let me try to iterate what i mean by this.

    In a game like Dark souls there is no handholding the world exists by itself , it does not care if u fail and it does not care that you cannot access its secrets , What you do and accomplish you do so by your own actions and resourcefulness.
    In that game there is an entire section / area which is completely hidden and sealed off and the player can progress through the whole game and finish it multiple times without knowing that it was ever there in the first place. The developers actually made content for a game knowing that if the community was not good enough they would never be able to access it , which is cool beyond words.

    Now you might ask why i am comparing dark souls to FF ARR , of course in an mmo it would be very hard to implement such secrets since being an online game once a person discovers a secret he/she will spread it till it is common knowlege.
    The analogy here is this : Even though the content was hidden and difficult to complete , the wait time ( travelling time in dark souls ) was negligible once you could got the teleport ability. It was the actual content that gave the challenge and the thrill , the act of playing it. If you knew about the area you could get there without a heist or worry.

    On FF aRR on the other hand SE have knowingly or unknowingly added the wait time to the mechanics of the binding coil! . 3+ hours of mindlessly grouping for a party adds no value whatsoever to the content or the game in general.

    It is a chore for you to handle and nothing more.

    With this i will conclude the rant and the Faq section.
    Please feel free to add more to the discussion and let me know what you think about this issue.
    (12)
    Last edited by cherubims; 10-08-2013 at 10:10 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Sove92's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    906
    Character
    Soveia Shadowsong
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by cherubims View Post
    a.) Abandon the current FC and search for a new one Dedicated exclusively for end game content.

    Option A : This is currently impossible for me as i have friends with me in my FC and i do not wish to switch just for personal gain. So what is left?
    Linkshell is an alternative.


    "1. New FC for endgame raids."

    Again, you don't have 8 LS slots for just for show.

    "2. Add Binding coil to duty finder."

    Disaster.

    "3. Shifting the weekly reset timer."

    The lockout is indeed making it needlessly difficult to enter, but I believe it's just a temporary measure (denying loot is a better solution, though) to keep players from getting too much ilvl 90 gear before CT and its ilvl 80 gear are released. The myth tome cap is there for the same reason.


    "1. What about linkshells? Why not use them instead of changing FC?
    A. Linkshells are a chatoom for like minded people , more akin to a casual group gathering to talk about random stuff ingame etc."

    Coil dedicated linkshells say hi.

    The rest is TL;DR
    (15)
    Last edited by Sove92; 10-08-2013 at 06:24 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    cherubims's Avatar
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    Character
    Zemus Highwind
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Sove92 View Post
    Linkshell is an alternative.


    "1. New FC for endgame raids."

    Again, you don't have 8 LS slots for just for show.

    "2. Add Binding coil to duty finder."

    Disaster.

    "3. Shifting the weekly reset timer."

    The lockout is indeed making it needlessly difficult to enter, but I believe it's just a temporary measure (denying loot is a better solution, though) to keep players from getting too much ilvl 90 gear before CT and its ilvl 80 gear are released. The myth tome cap is there for the same reason.


    "1. What about linkshells? Why not use them instead of changing FC?
    A. Linkshells are a chatoom for like minded people , more akin to a casual group gathering to talk about random stuff ingame etc."

    Coil dedicated linkshells say hi.

    The rest is TL;DR
    All i read in your post was "Linkshells" , "Linkshellsss" and "Liiiinnnnkkksssheeellss".

    Honestly if you managed to read my 2 options

    Quote Originally Posted by cherubims View Post
    a.) Abandon the current FC and search for a new one Dedicated exclusively for end game content.
    b.) Actively search out random groups of people / start and group with the help of shout /linkshells etc.
    You would realise that i did mention them , so i dont know what the fuss is about.

    Not to mention that you got point no 3 totally wrong , i suggest you read faq 4 to get the full details on what i am suggesting.

    Also i am currently on 2 linkshells with hardcore players 30- 40 members exclusively for coil runs. These numbers will increase as we find more members to add as people reach end game but that is doubtful as FC's are advertising and snapping up endgame members left and right. These people mixed with members in toll make up for the final party when we attempt coil runs on the weekends.
    (2)
    Last edited by cherubims; 10-08-2013 at 07:45 PM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Swishytail's Avatar
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    Ul'Dah
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    Character
    Swishytail Exaflare
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Sove92 View Post
    "2. Add Binding coil to duty finder."

    Disaster.
    This x1000.
    (9)

  5. #5
    Player
    Alemana's Avatar
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    Character
    Eryn Redwing
    World
    Hyperion
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    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Sove92 View Post
    Coil dedicated linkshells say hi.
    Please god. Stop this phrase. It literally gives a child in Africa brain cancer everytime it is typed, thought or said in the world.
    (2)

  6. #6
    Player
    blowfin's Avatar
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    Character
    Blowfin Jr
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by cherubims View Post
    New FC for endgame raids.
    Linkshells fit this purpose rather than an FC. I think you're suggesting that we could have 2 active FC's? I can't see that happening.

    1. What about linkshells? Why not use them instead of changing FC?
    A. Linkshells are a chatoom for like minded people , more akin to a casual group gathering to talk about random stuff ingame etc.

    An FC on the other hand are usually made up of a close knit group of friends and kinsmen of a similar mould who will help you through thick and thin, Issues and arguments are instantly dispelled in the midst of friends and loved ones.
    The same cannot be said for a linkshell group.
    Naw, you've just assigned those definitions yourself. A linkshell is the perfect tool for the problem you're describing there. If the people are like minded and have the same goal (coil in this case) then why wouldn't a strong bond be formed?
    (3)
    Last edited by blowfin; 10-08-2013 at 07:57 PM.

  7. #7
    Player
    cherubims's Avatar
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    Zemus Highwind
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    Cerberus
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    Lancer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by blowfin View Post


    Naw, you've just given assigned those definitions yourself. A linkshell is the perfect tool for the problem you're describing there. If the people are like minded and have the same goal (coil in this case) then why wouldn't a strong bond be formed?
    I am giving you these definations based on personal experience , i am currently in 2 linkshells for binding coil and the majority of them rush through the content , by the time i log in during the weekends to play they are either done with the content or are too busy to bother.
    (2)

  8. #8
    Player
    Trystan's Avatar
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    Trystane Scuro
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by cherubims View Post
    I am giving you these definations based on personal experience , i am currently in 2 linkshells for binding coil and the majority of them rush through the content , by the time i log in during the weekends to play they are either done with the content or are too busy to bother.
    Maybe you go about it wrong?

    *You* have to do some work in order to get a good linkshell running... find some like minded small FCs on your server... google / FC-Forums /----then get in contact with them, *communicate* - form a linkshell / alliance. Raiding is group content, you need some communication for that. As long as you are that narrow-minded and lazy aka waiting for silver platter... you wont get what you want. And that same rule goes with every MMO.

    That allying with other small groups works in every single MMO for small guilds / FCs whatever they are called wherever.

    Sure... there are games with Raids in DutyFinder-like tools... but those raids are dumbed down because it would be a disaster otherwise.

    So either get yourself moving and find people... or wait for dumbed-down DF-Raids in the future and complain till then. ;-)
    (2)
    Last edited by Trystan; 10-08-2013 at 06:46 PM.

  9. #9
    Player
    cherubims's Avatar
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    Zemus Highwind
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    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Trystan View Post
    Maybe you go about it wrong?

    *You* have to do some work in order to get a good linkshell running... find some like minded small FCs on your server... google / FC-Forums /----then get in contact with them, *communicate* - form a linkshell / alliance. Raiding is group content, you need some communication for that. As long as you are that narrow-minded and lazy aka waiting for silver platter... you wont get what you want. And that same rule goes with every MMO.

    That allying with other small groups works in every single MMO for small guilds / FCs whatever they are called wherever.

    Sure... there are games with Raids in DutyFinder-like tools... but those raids are dumbed down because it would be a disaster otherwise.

    So either get yourself moving and find people... or wait for dumbed-down DF-Raids in the future and complain till then. ;-)

    You see you think i have not done my home work on linkshells , the server i am on "Cerberus" has a set number of people doing endgame content especially coil.

    The Majority of them are currently in FC's that run coil excusively , if you want to run it with them you are expected to join their FC's.

    The minority ( me included ) are included in 2 -3 linkshells , i may have missed a few but most people who run coil in toll are present in them.
    Dont get me wrong it is perfectly possible to create a group for coil on a saturday or a sunday but it is the 3+ hour wait that is the detrimental factor here.
    (2)

  10. 10-08-2013 06:14 PM
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    oops

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