Highly Notorious Monsters

[Req]

Please read before posting.

None of us want the 24 hour pops. We would all like to see those pop times reduced dramatically. I would love 6 hour pops, with a 15 minute window. Also, make the pop spot be an entire zone, not limit it to one specific spot to encourage botting (ie Fafnir/Nid)

We don't want a timesink, we want open world NM's that pose a challenge. We are talking about the kind of NM's that will take several wipes before finding a good strategy. NM's that dont have a gauranteed drop rate. Of course some people are going to be a little jealous when they see people sporting some sexy gear, that is how it will be no matter what. That happens with Instanced gear...

But that certain aspect is not what we are after. We just want the chase, the excitement, the thrill of the claim, and the giddy anticipation as the mob dies and the loot pool finally comes up. To see it dropped nothing. Tomorrow maybe!

I am in your boat though, i work a 50 hour work week, I can't camp like I used to. Which is why I want to dilute the timesink method of FFXIV and make it palpable in this game to cater to everyone. Not just the hardcore/casual gamers.

I don't know where you are getting that I am not reading or that no one is calling for the 24 hour nms spawns, considering you quoted someone just a few posts ago saying to add "quick spawns. long spawns. lottery spawns. Place holder spawns. timed spawns. 24 hours spawns. rare spawns." to which they also said, "if you don't like it then don't do it." And people like that is what i was generally responding to in my post. There is no middle ground, everyone seems to want free roaming nms, and the general concensus is "instances are bad because they are too repeatable." What about timed instances that are challenging. Ones that you can be repeated only every so often but with great rewards? Remember einherjahr? Even skilled linkshells had trouble getting through there, and it didnt take the ability to sit there and wait, you could log in and you were done with it in half an hour at your linkshells convenience and you either moved on to the next tier or didnt. Like lots of people have also suggested, what about poppable nms that are hard to get the pops for like kirin that you could do at your own conveniance but was still a pain in the ass to get to because you had to kill 12 other nms before you even got there. This is the middle ground.

As far as roaming nms, the best middle ground I could think of would be roaming NMS that are so damn powerful it takes 100 people to take down on like a 2 week spawn. Something that is such a massive undertaking you would need to gather a large portion of the server during a set time to take it down, something that would take time and planning would need to be at a time convenient for a large majority of the player base to undertake, and not just based on which ls could be there on time and who could claim it first. How the rewards would work, I have absolutely no idea, maybe something involving the free company system where your free company gets a tokens or some sort of currency based on how involved it was in the fight which could then be exchanged to fight a poppable nm that drops gear, or could just be traded in for gear itself. Whether this is going to be possible in 2.0 or not I have no idea.

I am sure there are other ways that there could be balance between this, but everyone needs to realize for this to be a successful game the player base needs to have challenging content with rare items, that isnt based on whether or not they can log in at a certain time dictated by an algorithm SE made, and more about the time they can log in at their convenience and take part in the challenging content.

[Jinko]

But when you quote Yoshida with the comment of "the people have spoken"... Look at the game... It has failed miserably, and despite the recent hightened amount of players, is still failing. It needs more content catering to both crowd.

The game is getting better with every patch, there is only so fast the dev team can work to polish that giant turd Tanaka left behind.

[Jinko]

Also some Roaming HNM.
Have them pop every five minutes like any regular NM, but put a recast timer of like 15min on any member that participated in the kill (like the raids), that way you don't have people hogging the NM.

This is a great idea, although 60 mins would be better that would give everyone a chance every hour.

Though I don't see how any Roaming NM will be that challenging if you can have 40+ people attacking it.
IDK I'm sure they'll figure out a good way to please everyone.

You still can't target or help kill other players leve mobs so there is definitely a way they could solve this issue.

But people want easy-mode, no competition syle FFXIV where they can go into the same instanced raid as many times in a day that they want, so that they can be 5/5 on all new gear sets in 1 day for their entire PT.

Yea because we have seen all those players with full darklight running about haven't we. /sigh

We all like your suggestion of 100 man boss battles, its cool. But the rest of us want plain old, open world HNM's as well. Just because you don't like them, and want to post useless statistics about who all DOESNT want them, is not going to change our pursuit of the implementation of said NM's.

Ahh so its like fighting a loosing battle ? *the people have spoken*

[Peptaru]

Show me anyone who had a full Darklight set 24 hours after release. I doubt anyone even has a full set now. Let alone a full party in six hours.

While correct that no one had it in a day, let alone six hours, there are pics of at least one full set already, on these very forums, in another thread.

[ArnoMorley]

The game is getting better with every patch, there is only so fast the dev team can work to polish that giant turd Tanaka left behind.

This game failed because of SE's CEO not because of Tanaka. That's why even 2.0 is in danger because Wada is still forcing this boneheaded template to be designed around that caused the old game to fail.



This is a perfect example of why they just need 2 games, one for both audiences. Imo NMs were fine in XI, casual people seem to want this game to be spoon fed to them. Neither side should have to compromise, if there were two games we'd both get what we want.

People seem to misunderstand the purpose of the 24 hour spawn, it wasn't to make it hard it was to make it so you only did it once a day and moved on to other content. With a 6 hour repop like somebody suggested you'd be going back to fafnir several times a day. The only thing that would make sense is not liking would be the 3 hour spawn window, although the window rarely ended up being that long...

A good compromise to me would be instead of a 21-24 repop maybe an 18-20 hour repop and reducing the window to 2 hours max instead of 3, but the casual gamers want to make it ridiculous like the 6 hour respawn thing or having so multiple groups fight it in an instance.



In regard to the poll I think the numbers are flawed, idk when that was taken but I bet that most of the die hard XI fans had quit by the time that poll was out so of course the numbers are going to favor the crowd that wants everything to be easy.

It's also one of those issues where people are going to think they don't want it but it makes the game better. It was like the whole death penalty debate. When asked nobody in their right mind would want to lose exp on death, but when you break it down it's not wanting to lose levels on XI that made you fear dying in the first place. XIV has no death penalty but there's no fear of dying, XI's death penalty would have made fighting more exciting.

You will never be able to trust a poll on something that involves a penalty, Yoshi P and his team should have enough common sense to know better.

[Exni]

Roaming Dragons.
Giant Beasts.
High Respawn Timers.
Amazing Gear.

I know everyone crys foul over copy+paste ideas from Final Fantasy XI. But lets be honest, they were the reason alot of people played. The rush of getting claim over your enemy linkshells. Watching an awesome wipe. Seeing that ever-elusive item in the loot pool. So many amazing memories of great times.

This topic is about the possible implementation of non-instanced, highly notorious monsters to roam the open plains of Final Fantasy XIV.

I would like ideas, opinions, etc; on how we can implement something of this nature that caters to all crowds. Lets hear it.

Good OP. Definetly something that XIV is SORELY missing. For anyone playing more than a few months, and especially those of us who have been here since launch or before, open-world excitement just doesn't exist.. period. Adding some quality HNM (non-instanced) with shortened timers (by comparison to XI) would add a great deal of "something to do" whether you wanted to clear it all, or just watch others go at it. This game already has claim wars (see job quests during patch weekend..) but it's not an issue due to the reallly short repop. XI was such a big deal (to some..) because after waiting all night long for 10+ hrs waiting for HNM to pop, the LS that jus showed up 30m ago gets the lucky claim.. and you essentially just blew your whole day... for just ONE *chance* at getting your loot. HNM in XIV shouldn't have quite as short a repop as NM, but 1-4 hours timers would work.

[ThePatriarch]

HNMs suck. Camping them is boring. The battles are easy mode. The only challenge is out claiming the RMT bot. Give me the complex and challenging instances 2.0's engine and servers are being designed for over XI content that XI got rid of any day.

So according to you, we should listen to your opinion and that of a specified group of people. and completely ignore the wants of another group? For the sakes of the masses lets all hope you never go into game design.

And yes, lets make a game purely based off instances, and even further lets assume due to 2.0 they will be good?

Despite all of our ascertations to keep this thread about ways to positively implement HNM's in a manner that will cater to the vast majority, you have to come into threads and force your opinions on everyone else. You have some good ideas, and you have some simply terrible ideas. I am in the same boat, I don't expect what I want, to be what everyone else wants. I want this thread to be the melting pot of a collaboration of ideas.

So if you can't keep constructively participate in what we would like to accomplish in this thread, feel free to go bother other people. I gaurantee you, there are atleast 10 people out there who care about what you have to say.

/e and even further more, in the quote above i noticed you failed to comprehend what we have been saying:

We hated camping too, we want shorter time frames, pops, etc.

HNM's most definitely did not suck, they were a staple of FFXI (Even through you hate it)

We want to spread the spawn range, and make it much larger to stave off botters.

and lastly, you talk of challenging instances... they havent even come out yet, you have absolutely no way of knowing if they will truly be challenging.

[Jinko]

This game failed because of SE's CEO not because of Tanaka. That's why even 2.0 is in danger because Wada is still forcing this boneheaded template to be designed around that caused the old game to fail.

That's not true, the server, the graphics engine, the UI, the animation lock all of these issue are down to Tanaka and Yoshida is making sure to correct those problems.

Tanaka doesn't know how to make mainstream games which appeal to a wide audience, he even confessed in a interview that he didn't have time to play other games, at least Yoshida has vast experience of other MMO's in the market because he has played them himself.

This is a perfect example of why they just need 2 games, one for both audiences. Imo NMs were fine in XI

They already do have 2 games.

People seem to misunderstand the purpose of the 24 hour spawn, it wasn't to make it hard it was to make it so you only did it once a day and moved on to other content

Ok then lets change Esar's idea a little:- NM's with 5mins spawn times and can only be killed/claimed once a day.

Or Nm's that can be spawned any time as long as you have the required item to pop them.

In regard to the poll I think the numbers are flawed, idk when that was taken but I bet that most of the die hard XI fans had quit by the time that poll was out so of course the numbers are going to favor the crowd that wants everything to be easy.

Well that's their problem, they had the oppertunity to give their feedback except the didn't because they left.

I think you underestimate the size of the casual crowd, go look at how many people bought FFXIII (-2), thats the kind of userbase SE are aiming for and they won't be getting those kinds of numbers with a convoluted experience like FF11.

So according to you, we should listen to your opinion and that of a specified group of people. and completely ignore the wants of another group? For the sakes of the masses lets all hope you never go into game design.

Yup this how it works, hardcore fans are in the minority, especially when you acknowledge the fact SE are aiming for casual gamers and have been from the day the game was first revealed.

SE want a WoW not a FF11.

[Rydin]

I think the new claiming system took everyone by surprise in 1.19

The original Problem
While killing a MOB... if other MOBs aggroed... and they died before the first MOB did, you would get ZERO credit for the kill... No loot... No XP.
This was especially stupid (that's not even exaggeration... It was pretty stupid) in leves.. which were open world instanced, the MOBs were yours and yours alone... and yet you could only "Attack the 1 red MOB!!!!!!"

What the community asked for? (I hate to use words like "we" when speaking only for myself... I know it's pretentious... but if it makes you feel better, the "we" can just refer to me and my LS)
The ability to claim multiple MOBs or at the very least.. get credit (XP and Loot) for killing MOBs that weren't claimed

What we got?
We actually got what we asked for but they also slid in the ability to attack MOBs claimed by others, even though I never saw anyone ask for this.

The problems it caused
1. Power-leveling was now possible because some high level character outside the party could slaughter everything for you.
2. Anything open world can now be super-zerged by as many people as you can muster. that was pretty much Yoshi saying he had no regard or serious plans for any open world NMs. You can zerg a stronghold with 40 people and clear it easily in minutes... but whats the ultimate reward? a "chance" at a cuirass that isn't worth using? Mask of the Mortal Hex?

Being Able to attack MOBs already claimed is one of the biggest things hurting this game. It works against the abolishment (I guess firefox doesn't think "Abolishment" is a word) of PLing and also against the idea of new open world NMs

[ArnoMorley]

That's not true, the server, the graphics engine, the UI, the animation lock all of these issue are down to Tanaka and Yoshida is making sure to correct those problems.

Tanaka doesn't know how to make mainstream games which appeal to a wide audience, he even confessed in a interview that he didn't have time to play other games, at least Yoshida has vast experience of other MMO's in the market because he has played them himself.



They already do have 2 games.



Ok then lets change Esar's idea a little:- NM's with 5mins spawn times and can only be killed/claimed once a day.

Or Nm's that can be spawned any time as long as you have the required item to pop them.

The UI and etc okay that might be partly his fault, but I would put that more on deadlines given and the people actually programming it. And so what if he doesn't know how to make a mainstream game? This copy and paste of other MMOs has got to stop, there are dozens of mainstream games out there and they're all the same damn thing. At least Tanaka's original.

And mainstream how exactly? The fact it's an anime game severely limits what they'll sell in other regions, even if it was the most fun MMO on the market with the most content they've shot themselves in the foot as far as other regions go. The best they'll get is what Japan can give them, they won't touch WoW's group.


And when I said 2 games I meant two newer games for a casual and hardcore gamers. XI does not count anymore, they nerfed the crap out of it and now just have 2 games for casual players. Even if they un-nerfed it and made it all hard again it still undid everybody's accomplishments.


5 min spawns are stupid, do you really want the entire server being able to kill stuff once a day? If that happened in XI everybody would have had speed belts, D rings in a matter of weeks. How stupid is that? And XI did have force popped nms too, but it's retarded to make the whole game that way. Claim wars and long spawn times are good things

And I think you over estimate the casual crowd. Like I said already dozens of casual games on the market so even if there are 20mil casual gamers you have to share them with every other game. If there were so many casual gamers then the fatigue system would not have been such a terrible thing, why? because the casual gamers would have never been fatigued. Punishing hard core gamers devastated their user base.