Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

Just for the cool it is, i would trade jump for any archer skill.

Not minding is a good gap closer and retreat move if the boss has adds you can target, use internal release/blood for blood and do the jump, is just really good damage there.

Besides, we cannot afford to put even more -not so good- skills in our already half-hellish rotation.
And Raging Strikes CD is just ridiculous to be on harmony with our other buffs, specially internal release which CD is really fast. It would just mess up our timing.

[EasymodeX]

Is this accurate for a patchwerk fight?

Yes, generally. It doesn't take into account things like Internal Release being synchronized with anything in particular. But, the numbers should be very close.

I must ask. What dragoon jobb specifics is accualy making it worth go for dragoon over lancer? I ask this as I find the archer 20% dmg buff and crit buff wery usefull and use them over MAR utilitys any day.

Sup Osi.

Yeah, I think that thought has occurred to everyone. To that end I updated my model to include crit% with an assumed baseline of 25% (so crit% with SS up would be 35%) and the results are pretty entertaining. For most rotations the potency-per-second actually dropped by using SS, because the SS buff is actually pretty weak, the attack itself is weak (140, so you need to gain over 60 potency from the buff to match your filler to break even), and using it caused a loss of uptime of other buffs (like Heavy Thrust).

Even if we assume the same PPS for the "LNC" (+SS) and "DRG" rotations, take the next step:

A LNC with 450 STR has a potency coefficient of 126.0. A DRG with 470 has a coefficient of 130.6. That's roughly a 3.7% increase in damage from the STR. Ref: http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=179

The Raging Strikes buff is up for 20/180 = 11% of the time, and adds 20% damage. That's +2.222% average damage.


DRG STR bonus > Raging Strikes (although Raging Strikes is still good for burst damage situations)

Straight Shot is a wash at best (or a DPS loss at worst).

The net result is that the DPS of a DRG is going to be ahead 0-2% of the DPS of a LNC using straight shot ... without counting jumps. Jumps aren't the best DPS increasers in the world, but they do increase DPS.

The biggest question would be "how much random utility does a LNC bring" versus the damage / utility of jumps. Remember a LNC can bring rez, cure, prot, 50 defensive cross skills ... they all do nothing for DPS, but hey whatever right.

Edit: Jumps add in the general ballpark of 4% total damage.

[xyaie]

That's a lot more what I was looking for. Thanks EasymodeX. You mentioned your SS again. I was going to make one like I did for tera on my next off day (wed), but it sounds like you already have a pretty solid one? Biggest thing I wanted to model was ep value based on class/rotation and current stats. Would I be recreating what we already have? (We as in the theorycrafting community)

id like to be able to say on paper x class is higher dps than y class, but class scales with gear better.

[Ulathskullsplitter]

Ok I can't number crunch like some here but after reading through I just want to add some things that popped into my head. For those wondering whether or not it is beneficial to use fracture and phlebotomize, it seems it almost always would be against a boss. In theory its great to string together the absolute highest potency attacks together but in game you rarely get to stand still long enough to do that. So by applying all of your DoTs to the boss you ensure that you are doing some damage even when running from aoe or moving to adds.

Also Im a controller user and managing all these skills is next to impossible without macros. Had to make a macro for combos. One for TT<VT<FT and one for ID<Dis<CT. And one for fracture<phlebotomize. While the macro is going you can still time your off gcd skills in between.

[Kanzer]

I have no idea why people keep saying jump is off gcd. It's not even close to off gcd. Realistically it takes like 2.5 seconds till ou can move or do anything again.

That's a pretty big exaggeration. I can jump immediately after a fullthrust and land just as the GCD is coming off and go immediately into another combo.

Dig into the numbers, don't simply assume something is or isn't worth it. In this case I can assure you you are wrong.

[Karpola]

I wouldn't give away my jumps. You can jump at the end of any knockback cast and not get knocked back as the jump leaves you on the jump position till the end of animation.

[RoschVeliess]

I notice I hardly ever use feint, mainly because I just forget it's there cause I'm so use to not using it. Wondering how best to apply this or if/when I even should apply it. Solo I don't usually bother unless it's a somewhat strong mob. In dungeons I don't usually use it either mainly because I'm more focused on maximizing DPS but maybe I should be slapping it on bosses at the start? It also seems to have some weird diminishing return-like effects so you can't just keep it up 100% of the time but I'm not sure how long till the DR wears off.

[Ulathskullsplitter]

I notice I hardly ever use feint, mainly because I just forget it's there cause I'm so use to not using it. Wondering how best to apply this or if/when I even should apply it. Solo I don't usually bother unless it's a somewhat strong mob. In dungeons I don't usually use it either mainly because I'm more focused on maximizing DPS but maybe I should be slapping it on bosses at the start? It also seems to have some weird diminishing return-like effects so you can't just keep it up 100% of the time but I'm not sure how long till the DR wears off.

Edit. Nevermind. Was thinking of keen flurry not feint.

[EasymodeX]

Feint is great to use at the start of the fight while the tank may be mixing some non-threat attacks for various purposes (and before the healer has a rhythm), as well as anytime in the fight when damage to the tank accelerates -- e.g. when a pack of adds spawn and the tank uses an AOE threat on them; Feint the boss.

Although ... that's only if the tank doesn't pick up Feint. Edit: NVM, I guess the tank jobs don't get access to it. They can get a few other possible slows, but it looks like they don't get easy access to them, so the DRG using Feint is something to keep in mind.


The slow on Feint is pretty significant. It's fantastic to use when I fight a mob 7 levels higher than me. I imagine it would be highly effective if you have to off-tank an add in a boss fight.

[Ayvar]

After seeing so many questions from sub-50's and new Dragoons about stats, cross class skills, Jumps, etc etc I added a more beginner friendly section right after the rotation discussion. If there is any information people feel is critical for leveling Lancers/Dragoons to know then let me know and I'll add it in (if it's important).