Highly Notorious Monsters

[Peptaru]

What doesn't make sense? The person I quoted used an analogy. I added to the same analogy to illustrate the difference between XI and XIV.

I went with plenty of shout groups to sky, sea and Dynamis and they all did quite well. Can't say anything about HNMs because of the exclusivity of the content.

I think the best way to put HNMs in the game is make huge beasts that can't be claimed. They take close to 100 or even more people to kill. It'll require the server to cooperate to kill it. Until it's killed, certain areas of the world are inaccessible.

Killing difficult monsters in an open world can be fun, but there are certain aspects -- like camping -- that people just don't want to do.

Your post said XI was just as easy as XIV but the content was limited. Sorry, XI wasn't as easy as XIV, few games are. That is what i commented on. Shout groups for content (edit: in XI) didn't arise til 1 or more years after it was released and people could just follow a cookie-cutter strategy from a wiki. The exception being nyzul/assault which was nice. It was good to see content you could do with a shout. Everything in XIV can be done with a shout, from the day its released lol

[Sephrick]

I apologize but the majority of your posts just aren't too good sir.

You claim that people don't want HNMs, but apparently (judging from this thread) they do.

Rather than try to broadcast your opinion on all of us, how about you try to come to the realization that people are very interested in working together to come up with a valid means of having HNMs in this game that can cater to more than just the hardcore class.

Okay, two things.


1) I've suggested many ways to make both sides happy in other threads. Some very detailed such as this:

Okay, here's my suggestion on how to make everyone happy:

Open world

The problem I've most witnessed people complain about in regard to having events focused in the open world, especially endgame, is situations of monopolization.

People don't want to be handed things, the just want a fair shake at them without other players stepping on their toes. Sky was great in theory, but it quickly turned into a voke macro showdown with RMT bots included.

Bounty System

I think a good way to keep any one mob from being a claim fest would be to remove the drops from the mobs themselves.

At this point it would be a two-fold endeavor. The Grand Companies have heard that there are schematics hidden in ruins around Eorzea for ancient and powerful equipment. However, recent events have awoken powerful monsters and they are terrorizing the land. Because of this, the Companies must focus their full attention on the beasts and ignore what could be a wild chocobo chase.

Expedition Forces

At a certain rank, the Grand Company has enough trust in you to divulge the location of known ruins. If you're so inclined, you can investigate. These are seperate zones, but not instances. Their only requirement for entrance is being of a certain rank. After all, even access to Sky was contingent on story progression.

These open world areas are full of dangerous foes and pitfalls. It's up to the player to explore and discover where the schematics are located. Ultimately, they're a drop from a boss like abjurations in Sky. The schematics are U/U.

Bounty Points

So you've found some schematics. Or you just want to help fight the good fight.

Either way, the Companies' master craftsmen can't be bothered with the schematics when they're so busy churning out equipment and supplies for soldiers to take on these new beasts roaming the land.

The Grand Companies are willing to make a deal, they'll get you the attention of their master craftsmen if you aid in the battle against the roaming NMs.

Each time a player participates in a kill on an NM, they get a certain amount of "Bounty Points." These can be accumulated for the big prize or, for those not interested in the schematics, for Company Seals.

Instances

Some people just want to schedule an LS event and play on their own schedule, this should be tailored to them.

The Base Item

The story is short and sweet: Grand Companies aren't the only citizens of Eorzea aware of the schematics. It is rumored that the Beast Tribes of Eorzea have been creating weaponry based on their own versions of the same schematics.

In each of the strongholds is an entrance to an instanced raid. The Amalj'aa Armory, the Kobold Foundry and the Ixali Floating Keep.

These raids eventually lead to a battle against a boss who drops a weaker version of the open world items.

The Upgrade

Garlean Magitek can do many wonderous things, including enhance weaponry of a specific design.

Players can partake in difficult instanced raids on Garlean outposts in search of a functioning one-time-use piece of Magitek that will upgrade their specific equipment to the Open World version.

Conclusion

There's a balance in all of this. In the open world, you're not guaranteed a chance at the fight, but when you get claim and win you at least make some form of personal progress. In the instances your guaranteed a chance at the battle on your own schedule, but drop rates are low and require getting two specific drops per item.

Ideally, both would be designed to take about the same amount of time. But both are influenced by luck. In the open world, a player may never get in on a kill or could just be around for all of them. The instances could go over like Dynamis -- I know people who head RDM hats hitting the ground whereas my LS saw three drop in as many years.

This all leaves it up to the player to chose. There's plenty in the open world to explore and even terrible beasties to bump into.

Everyone can choose their own path to the same items while still having to put in a significant amount of time.

But people ignored it mostly replying only "HNMs should give better rewards." So much for balance and compromise, eh?

2) 79.3% of players do not want claim wars. Question 10.

This data is somewhat representative of the response seen to Question 9 data. The people have spoken. As such, we'll be operating under the premise that new PvE content, such as dungeons containing sought-after loot, will be instanced. By instancing content in this way, we'll be able to reduce claim wars and counter-camping and all that. There's also the added merit of enabling the level design team to work with a clear theme in mind, and create much more engaging and challenging content.

Sorry, but as Yoshida said, the people have spoken.

[Peptaru]

^ He gave a good example of open world bosses though, 100 man content... I kind of like that idea.

BRING BACK THE KILLER TREE EVENT!!!!

[Jinko]

Your post said XI was just as easy as XIV but the content was limited. Sorry, XI wasn't as easy as XIV, few games are. That is what i commented on. Shout groups for content (edit: in XI) didn't arise til 1 or more years after it was released and people could just follow a cookie-cutter strategy from a wiki. The exception being nyzul/assault which was nice. It was good to see content you could do with a shout. Everything in XIV can be done with a shout, from the day its released lol

All the pugs I join are terrible, its part the reason why I only do stuff with my LS's these days.

[RinMorikaze]

Cliques are anti-LS, or at least what LS's should be. That crap started in other games where the "elite" of the LS couldn't be bothered to help lowly members, and god forbid new members.... that is to say, the members who would benefit most from an experienced group to play with and learn from. It leads to things like (an XI example) people with level 10 mnks posseessing the items for black belts. Did they need them? No, but they'll be damned if anyone who could actually use them would get them before the tenured members.

This is all IF the LS will even accept new players. After accepting them, if they do, the new member is treated like a frat pledge, working their ass off to try to prove themselves to the old-bloods who just use them. Use them with intent to drop them from their shell during their "trial period", etc, etc, etc, mini-rant. Ls's should breed community, they don't in (i'd wager) the majority of cases. They simply breed/foster elitism and seperation from others.

While this is getting off topic, generally I have been lucky enough to have been in and or am still in, LS's that are fairly helpful. I do see the cliques and that is something we'll see everywhere. Although, while you can't eliminate the problem, a really good LS can help lessen the impact. Again, I am fortunate enough to be in a few LS's where everyone is pretty friendly and helpful even if they aren't apart of a specific in-LS clique... Jinko is one of those helpful people. Yay Jinko!

[Raistlin]

Something like Shadow of the Colossus in multiplayer, fighting Ruby and Emerald Weapons could be awesome (just dreaming)

[Biggs]

Please add Behemoth King and his Dominion. That is all.

[ThePatriarch]

@Sephrick.

Your detailed Open-World layout you showed, I like it. So do many others.

But when you quote Yoshida with the comment of "the people have spoken"... Look at the game... It has failed miserably, and despite the recent hightened amount of players, is still failing. It needs more content catering to both crowd.

I personally love your idea of 100 man bosses. But at the same time I/many others would like KB/Faf/Tiamat type material. We have all mentioned the spawn time/area being revamped, etc etc.

Think of it less of everything being so "final" and/or "my opinion versus yours", and more of an open discusion inviting more opinions on how HNMs should be implemented

[Baxta]

I'm glad someone brought this up. This is one of the reasons I've had trouble getting into this game. Current open world NMs are just too easy. There's no surprise, adrenaline rush, contest-- no feeling of reward when you down them because you know they're going to pop back up in a few minutes. I'm okay with these kind of NMs staying in the game, but I think at least 25% of NMs should use something like ffxi's system. I enjoyed hunting things like charybdis and the sahagin NMs, or Stray Mary and Leaping Lizzy. There's a lot I can't remember about ffxi after a few years but I really enjoyed the NM system.

I'm not talking about the big game 24 hour spawns necessarily, although those were fun, too. Maybe those could be made to be a completely random spawn. I also liked having the occasional dragon around (like the big guy down in KRT or the one in the icelands. I can't remember place names anymore). Having these NMs added a certain quality to the world of ffxi-- more possibilities. Finding an NM actually gave you a jolt, because you didn't expect them to be sitting there 24/7. Finding a big ass dragon gave you one more reason to level up.

Hard to explain, but FFXI had a really rich NM world even outside of the spawns that were commonly botted.

oh man Charybdis! I camped him for about 11 hours when I went for my joyeuse and it was amazing. One of my good memories of XI. Standing around soloing the placeholders on BLM all day, chatting with my LS and then having them all run down when it finally popped, racing against another shell. Good times.

On topic, do I want these systems back? I'm not sure. Perhaps a small handful of NMs on longish timers will do me.

[Phen]

Some of the ideas here are cool. I do want to caution against the tiamat/kb etc model for a few reasons.

First, all in all these events in XI really weren't that popular. Dynamis, sky, sea etc were much more popular. I say this having done years of HNM- the overall server was not present. Most people that played XI never saw kings till Nyzul.

I think spawn timers have been beat to death, but when I think about them I still cant believe i was that crazy to do that back in the day.

That detailed break down with the mix of openworld claim etc is actually a really good plan it could work with the right amount of things to not cause a bottle neck or crazy claim fest (looking at you early abyssea).