Either SMN and RDM should lose their Raise or BLM should get a Raise.

[JohnnyDevo]

EDIT: Worth noting if you're using its weaponskills, you're being bad at the job. When enchanted, the attacks are unaspected magic, not weaponskills.

Not quite. While it is true that most things do physical damage as weaponskills or unaspected magic damage as spells, red mage's enchanted weaponskills are an exception. While they deal unaspected magic damage and benefit from all things that help magic damage, they are still weaponskills and follow all rules that apply.

This, however, is mostly irrelevant, excepting one case. A red mage using his enchanted melee combo while buffed with brotherhood will have a chance at giving the monk additional chakras. Not much benefit for the monk since it's only 3 weaponskills in the duration, but it's there.

Related, brotherhood buffs physical damage, which benefits the red mage's ogcd abilities specifically. Making this relationship one of the lowest-benefit two-way synergies in the game.

[Dualgunner]

Not quite. While it is true that most things do physical damage as weaponskills or unaspected magic damage as spells, red mage's enchanted weaponskills are an exception.

You are very right. I apologize, the difference between the two confuses me at times; I extend that apology to Ceallach, for making such a claim without making sure.

[Cynfael]

What people like you have to understand...

This is getting absurd. I was extremely clear when I explained my comment. You have an enormous chip on your shoulder when it comes to lore discussion and are reading disparagement where it doesn't exist and hasn't even been hinted at.

Nowhere have I said or implied that lore is unimportant. I have, however, stated that lore discussion isn't necessarily (and is usually not at all) the same thing as gameplay discussion.

[Ceallach]

Okay, goalposts are now at "if a class has mechanics of a different role it's a hybrid."

That's not what I was getting at. It makes sense for white mages to have attack spells because it's not historically inaccurate. They had Banish and Dia for ages, for example. Besides, the red mage has always been a jack of all trades, so having elements of basically every role other than tank and physical ranged DPS makes sense.

You are very right. I apologize, the difference between the two confuses me at times; I extend that apology to Ceallach, for making such a claim without making sure.

No worries.

Nowhere have I said or implied that lore is unimportant. I have, however, stated that lore discussion isn't necessarily (and is usually not at all) the same thing as gameplay discussion.

Actually, that "it's not unimportant" bit was not clear to me. The way I see it, ignoring or disrespecting the lore (the latter of which mainly Llugen is guilty of) is tantamount to not understanding what an RPG is, or even disrespecting the devs themselves.

And if you think I'm hard on you, you should see what I do to myself when I make mistakes...

[Kabooa]

Actually, that "it's not unimportant" bit was not clear to me. The way I see it, ignoring or disrespecting the lore (the latter of which mainly Llugen is guilty of) is tantamount to not understanding what an RPG is, or even disrespecting the devs themselves.

A game with great lore and terribly balanced gameplay is the same thing as a game with terrible lore and terribly balanced gameplay.

[zuzu-bq]

XIV gameplay is miles more balanced than people try to make it look.

[Ceallach]

XIV gameplay is miles more balanced than people try to make it look.

Just look at FINAL FANTASY XI. If you were a dragoon, puppetmaster, rune fencer, or even a red mage (later on), you were basically just not wanted by anyone ever. In FINAL FANTASY XIV, black mage does decent DPS. The balance problem lies in the fact black mage does only DPS while summoner does more than DPS and more DPS than black mage. Whether black mage should get a Raise variant is a stupid question. Black mage needs more DPS and really not much else.

But hey, people like Kabooa can not care about the game's lore all they like. As long as it's understood lore shapes what jobs and classes can do, that's enough to satisfy me.

[HaroldSaxon]

Just look at FINAL FANTASY XI. If you were a dragoon, puppetmaster, rune fencer, or even a red mage (later on), you were basically just not wanted by anyone ever. In FINAL FANTASY XIV, black mage does decent DPS. The balance problem lies in the fact black mage does only DPS while summoner does more than DPS and more DPS than black mage. Whether black mage should get a Raise variant is a stupid question. Black mage needs more DPS and really not much else.

But hey, people like Kabooa can not care about the game's lore all they like. As long as it's understood lore shapes what jobs and classes can do, that's enough to satisfy me.

That absolutely is not the issue though (SMN). If you think BLM's problem is just SMN - you are flat out incorrect. Black Mage not only needs DPS, but a whole lot of QoL/class design changes as well as changes to the general meta of DPS classes - SMN infact isn't actually the problem. Its DRG/BRD/MCH/NIN.

Black Mages are flat out not wanted by anyone ever.

[Ceallach]

That absolutely is not the issue though (SMN). If you think BLM's problem is just SMN - you are flat out incorrect. Black Mage not only needs DPS, but a whole lot of QoL/class design changes as well as changes to the general meta of DPS classes - SMN infact isn't actually the problem. Its DRG/BRD/MCH/NIN.

Black Mages are flat out not wanted by anyone ever.

I wouldn't mind things like Enochian becoming completely a trait and Disciples of Magic being more wanted in general. My points are simply that black mage should not get a Raise variant and whatever changes are made need to match with the game's lore. That's it. That's all I care about as far as this thread is concerned.

Now, if this thread were about overall balance in the meta, then sure, we could talk about the party composition problems, and I do agree with you there.

[HaroldSaxon]

I wouldn't mind things like Enochian becoming completely a trait and Disciples of Magic being more wanted in general. My points are simply that black mage should not get a Raise variant and whatever changes are made need to match with the game's lore. That's it. That's all I care about as far as this thread is concerned.

Now, if this thread were about overall balance in the meta, then sure, we could talk about the party composition problems, and I do agree with you there.

I absolutely agree that Black Mage shouldn't get a Raise variant. However it needs a lot more than just a dps numbers buff that will never be enough.