Ninja update ~ Throw "SATA"

[Covenant]

I'd like to see a version of SATA(sneak and trick attack) for ninja aimed specifically for their range/throw attacks. This version would be aimed for the lvl50-99 Ninja, and would help foster the "throw" abilities of a ninja.
Now before players point to the obvious NiNja/THF job combo and being able to SATA next attacks. I'd say to them the same thing applies to "dual wield". Why give thieves dual wield when they can sub /NIN. Or for that matter why share spells between BLM and RDM's?
My answer is style of play. A player wishing to increase the usefulness of a throw with this new range only "SATA" could help with the whole losing 2melee attacks in the same time to throw once. Also, if place ow enough for a /nin sub, other job classes could benefit from the throw "SATA".
This idea eliminates the need for throw "Weaponskills"(though I'd still like those). While changing the functionality of of a SATA to maybe increase accuracy as well ad damage outputs and make this job ability unique in it's aspect and function.

[wish12oz]

I'm going to begin by posting this:


Shuriken have a 192 delay.
Kannagi+Kamome have a combined (210+180) 390 delay.
When you hit the delay reduction cap of 80%, this becomes a new delay of 78.
78+78=156, you get slightly more then 2 melee attacks rounds per throw.(throwing delay is 192)
with apoc, /war, brutal, eponas you have triple attack+18%, double attack+18%, which means 54% of the time, you get an extra attack per melee round.
So at +54% melee attacks per round, every time you attack, you get 1 extra attack, because you attack twice every round.
you get slightly more then 2 attack rounds per throw, you get 3 attacks per round.
Your throwing damage needs to be slightly better then 6 melee attacks and give as much tp as 6 melee attacks to be on par with just meleeing.Throwing comes no where near either of these 2 things, and never will, it's impossible unless they make haste affect ranged attacks.

This is just in relation just throwing a shuriken, you are talking about using 2 job abilities and then throwing, which will easily make you miss 5-8 attack rounds, or 15-24 attacks worth of damage an TP, and there's no way this job ability could make up for losing that much damage.

Now, lets take a look at SATA, SA is done from behind the mob, and ninjas are tanks, so the mob shouldn't be looking away from you, meaning you're playing wrong if you can use it. TA is done to give other people hate, which is not what ninjas are to be doing, since ninja is a tank and should be the one with hate. So even this secondary aspect of your idea is not useful and you can't use it to argue and say losing all that damage is ok because its suppose to add functionality, not damage., which is obviously not your intent.

Also: SE said they cannot add throwing WS.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I'm just gonna go with No.

[Covenant]

@wish12oz... Your probably right...I don't follow the math of the game nor use a parse to "break it down". The "SATA" idea was just a filler term to describe an new ninja ability to boost a throw effectiveness. Just how effective? Well that's debatable and someone with the math behind it could possibly fix my intent.
If as u say a ninja lose 6 rounds or swings or something like that, this new ability should at the very least match either total damage average or as you say give enough TP back to cover the loss over rounds.
As far as the shriuken argument, yes it's valid that stars and darts are very lacking and/or expensive. That's not to say that a possible fix is ninja darts that feature (3) darts throw at the same time. This could be a new type of multi-throw item(think star with double or triple attack).
Lets have some fun, what about a new "Utsemi:San" Ninjitsu, that creates a set of clones 2-3, that causes the next attack to do triple damage...think Naruto and the "shadow clone Jutsu. This wouldn't benefit your dual wield, necessarily only the first strike, but could increase either throw or regular Ninjitsu? With a sufficient recast timer or say 5min or so, wouldn't overly abused.

[Raksha]

Also: SE said they cannot add throwing WS.

Yeah but it was probably bullshit when they said it.

I'm just gonna go with No.

Me too.

[TybudX]

Lets have some fun, what about a new "Utsemi:San" Ninjitsu, that creates a set of clones 2-3, that causes the next attack to do triple damage...think Naruto and the "shadow clone Jutsu.

I don't know who this Naruto character is, but he needs to quit subverting my game.

[Bagel]

that creates a set of clones 2-3, that causes the next attack to do triple damage...think Naruto and the "shadow clone Jutsu.

And when those 2-3 clones spawned, I would slap the hell out of them for throwing a shuriken when they should be meleeing for far better damage.

[Andrien]

I'm going to begin by posting this:


Shuriken have a 192 delay.
Kannagi+Kamome have a combined (210+180) 390 delay.
When you hit the delay reduction cap of 80%, this becomes a new delay of 78.
78+78=156, you get slightly more then 2 melee attacks rounds per throw.(throwing delay is 192)
with apoc, /war, brutal, eponas you have triple attack+18%, double attack+18%, which means 54% of the time, you get an extra attack per melee round.
So at +54% melee attacks per round, every time you attack, you get 1 extra attack, because you attack twice every round.
you get slightly more then 2 attack rounds per throw, you get 3 attacks per round.
Your throwing damage needs to be slightly better then 6 melee attacks and give as much tp as 6 melee attacks to be on par with just meleeing.Throwing comes no where near either of these 2 things, and never will, it's impossible unless they make haste affect ranged attacks.

This is just in relation just throwing a shuriken, you are talking about using 2 job abilities and then throwing, which will easily make you miss 5-8 attack rounds, or 15-24 attacks worth of damage an TP, and there's no way this job ability could make up for losing that much damage.

Now, lets take a look at SATA, SA is done from behind the mob, and ninjas are tanks, so the mob shouldn't be looking away from you, meaning you're playing wrong if you can use it. TA is done to give other people hate, which is not what ninjas are to be doing, since ninja is a tank and should be the one with hate. So even this secondary aspect of your idea is not useful and you can't use it to argue and say losing all that damage is ok because its suppose to add functionality, not damage., which is obviously not your intent.

Also: SE said they cannot add throwing WS.

Try thinking outside of Abyssea..

There wont be anymore mini expansions involving abyssea anymore, so the focus will be in somewhere else. Atma can only be used in abyssea as well.

With that said, I'd like to add that the shurikens we have today are out dated for the past 2 expansion packs. However when thrown they hit harder than a single melee hit from a katana. Again this is outside from Abyssea.

Got to think a little further since they're done with abyssea expanding. I mean we're just 9 levels away from 99 so who knows what new gears, weapons, abilities, and ws awaits.


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OT:

What SE can do is make an ability similar to MNK kicking ability that allows MNK to only kick. For Ninja they can only throw but double throw instead or triple throw. They could boost the speed of throwing and dmg rate on it etc. Just a thought lol

[Greatguardian]

What he said had nothing to do with Abyssea. Literally the only portion of that entire post referencing Abyssea was Apoc atma, and the math works just the same without it.

[wish12oz]

Try thinking outside of Abyssea..

Abyssea is not required to use haste gear, spells, marches, sambas or dual wield, double attack or triple attack. Sorry to burst your bubble, but all that stuff works outside abyssea, except apoc atma, which basically would reduce the amount of attacks missed from 1 throw to 6 instead of 'more then 6.'