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  1. #1
    Player Frost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    334
    Character
    Phraust
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99

    Claim System + Call for Help Code = Win

    I have seen so many threads recently about losing claim on monsters and people 'stealing' pops etc. I am proposing a solution in a new thread, rather than posting this idea in the seven other threads.

    First off, let me poison the well here and scorn Square Enix for not exercising a simple concept of:

    "The Spirit of the Law"...

    When a monster goes unclaimed by ways of a, I will call "faulty" game mechanic, and the GMs take the side of the group that 'steals' the monster, when the party originally fighting it are still in complete control of the monster; is it so hard to exercise the spirit of the law on that? Set a few examples, temp ban some of the more unsavory, dare i say sociopathic, folks playing that thrive on that behavior? I mean it's not specifically stated that you can't do this, but that's not really an excuse...

    This is silly kids' stuff you're enabling, Square. Letting these guys wave their fingers extremely close someone's face saying "I'M NOT TOUCHING YOU!" repeatedly... Only the scenario is closer to someone straight up punching another in the face and the assailant saying, "they were in the way of my fist, they should have moved if they didn't want to get hit"...

    The simple solution is the leave a monster claimed until all combatants have been defeated.

    The next best thing, would be punishing people that exploit a game mechanic for personal gain.


    The proposal: Turn the "Call for Help" code into the general claim code.

    What I mean by this:


    Here's one of several typical scenarios of how claim gets lost:

    1) Fighting a monster.
    2) Main tank starts to disconnect, can't move away from the monster, can't move the monster.
    3) One of two things happen here:
    >> a) The tank is forced out of the game and the monster goes unclaimed.
    >> b) The tank is forced out of the game, the monster goes unclaimed and all party members are forced to disengage because the current coding makes the disconnecting member drop party before they drop off the server....
    4) Sociopathic player/group takes advantage of this and claims the monster, kills it.


    Here's what happens when someone calls for help on a monster:

    1) Player calls for help.
    2) Monster remains in the 'open' status for people to attack it until either:
    >> a) Monster is killed.
    >> b) Monster kills anyone that took action on it and goes idle for a certain amount of time.

    SO....

    Why can't a monster stay claimed until it kills anyone that took action on it and goes idle for a certain amount of time?

    There's many reasons people lose claim:

    Disconnects
    Taking a melee off the mob, and they disengage after having been the last to act on the monster.
    A player dies after being the last to perform an action on the monster.
    The monster runs out of range, causing a player to disengage.
    A player runs out of range to avoid a devastating ability/spell*.

    *Meteor, Astral Flow, and several other things encompass the maximum "stay engaged" range, if you run out of range of them, you are forced to disengage, and you don't have the luxury in most cases to check if you're the last person to take action on the monster, disengage, then run.

    It's so easy to say "just don't lose claim". But there's so many situations where 'it just happens'...

    The truth is, this should have never been an issue.... but Square has enabled these people who openly steal popped monsters causing this problem to grow rapidly. There's even a saying: "If it's yellow, claim that fellow" because this practice is so accepted...

    This problem is tantamount to a burglar saying: "Hey man, if you didn't want your things stolen, you shouldn't have locked them up in your house" and the police agreeing...

    Or a guy suing his employer for "Wrongful Termination" after intentionally burning down the office, because there was no rule against it...

    Fix that which is broke.

    Please.
    (42)
    Last edited by Frost; 05-31-2011 at 05:51 PM.
    If you don't understand why Haste is so important, or if you don't think it is:
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/1847-Haste-and-You...-A-guide-to-the-misinformed.

  2. #2
    Player Akujima's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    470
    Character
    Shinjima
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    "The Spirit of the Law"...
    I'm giving you a thumbs up, because you have the guts to say something like this.
    (3)
    悪島 Where the spirit of the moon resides... 気 愛 月光

  3. #3
    Player Zatias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria.
    Posts
    379
    Character
    Zatias
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    "they were in the way of my fist, they should have moved if they didn't want to get hit"....
    rofl I loved this and I agree that NM stealing is wrong, if the alliance fighting it wiped, OK, don't let a pop go to waste. To claim just after it goes yellow because of game mechanics, you sir, are a penis. The claim issue should be fixed if possible!
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player Linh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    157
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    Why can't a monster stay claimed until it kills anyone that took action on it and goes idle for a certain amount of time?
    I totally agree with this.
    (1)
    90 MNK. 90 BLM. 90 COR. 90 WAR.

    All POST-Abyssea LEECHED and proud of it.

    Cept MNK (Got up to 41 in 2009). All that time wasted camping Retaliators....

  5. #5
    Player rog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,208
    Why can't a monster stay claimed until it kills anyone that took action on it and goes idle for a certain amount of time?
    And if you want to unclaim a mob without dying? Your just sol?

    Here's one of several typical scenarios of how claim gets lost:

    1) Fighting a monster.
    2) Main tank starts to disconnect, can't move away from the monster, can't move the monster.
    3) One of two things happen here:
    >> a) The tank is forced out of the game and the monster goes unclaimed.
    >> b) The tank is forced out of the game, the monster goes unclaimed and all party members are forced to disengage because the current coding makes the disconnecting member drop party before they drop off the server....
    4) Sociopathic player/group takes advantage of this and claims the monster, kills it.
    So you pull hate off the tank, move the mob away from him, and then attack it, so he does not have claim.

    It really is not hard to keep claim on mobs, regardless of what happens.

    The only "faulty mechanic" here is charm. Everything else works as intended.
    (4)

  6. #6
    Player Seriha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    981
    Character
    Kalsena
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Claim should never be lost unless it's one person acting on multiple mobs or someone pulling pinning crap. Otherwise, the amount of mobs you can keep claimed should be based on your party/alliance size. Giving up claim could then be achieved by your party/alliance leader through another option in the CFH menu.

    That's it. There's no defending the current system unless you're someone who likes to steal mobs.
    (1)

  7. #7
    Player rog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,208
    Quote Originally Posted by seriha
    or someone pulling pinning crap.
    Quote Originally Posted by seriha
    That's it. There's no defending the current system unless you're someone who likes to steal mobs.
    But it is ok to steal from anyone who is pinning?
    (6)

  8. #8
    Player sruon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    29
    Character
    Nours
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    COR Lv 94
    I can't remember the last time I lost claim.
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player rog's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,208
    Quote Originally Posted by sruon View Post
    I can't remember the last time I lost claim.
    I can. It was back at 75, when i was soloing a charybdis. It deaggroed when i was about 30' away, and it was unclaimed for about half a second before i could get to it and hit it with poison.
    (2)

  10. #10
    Player Seriha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    981
    Character
    Kalsena
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Ah, the guy who loves to pin, speed hack, and tells everyone who can't solo something you've claimed to sucks is trying to play the "two wrongs don't make a right" card. We've been over this before on Alla, though. Pinning shouldn't be possible to begin with and SE designing content for (small) parties and enforcing that wish isn't a bad thing. I have no sympathy for those abusing an exploit getting burned in the process of employing it.
    (3)

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