Why is Guarding just so...bad?

[Franklyn]

Atmas allow a different testing environment, before abyssea came out there weren't a load of jobs that can solo VT and IT mobs. Now you can do that with any job. Try AGI atmas, regen atmas, DD atmas, a blend of the 3 to see how guarding MNK differs from counterstance monk, damage wise and defense wise. Slightly easier to test in abyssea when you have atmas to keep you alive, than outside of abyssea where you would need to be PLed continually.

[Cream_Soda]

If you have to take your offensive atma off, it's pointless. Why lower damage to guard when you can counter and still be one of the top DDs in the game? Besides, 70%+ counter rate is easily obtainable, let's say you could get a 70% guard rate (which you can't).

Which mitigates more damage? 70% of the time of taking 0 damage (as well as dealing damage yourself) or 70% of the time taking reduced damage?

Besides, you wouldn't even need have capped guard to test this. Capped guard for 75? Go to the lv 80 monsters in the earlier abyssea zones, fight mobs that are IT to a lv 75 mnk. Could test just like that, lol.

[Franklyn]

Like I said I'm more interested in learning about guarding MNKs against Ironclads and Shin, things you can't counter. And its more of a test thing to see what the results are, I've tanked as PLD and NIN. I've seen WAR blood tank, I've seen MNK blood tank. More interested in seeing a MNK act like a PLD but put out slightly better numbers damage wise, or atleast see them hold their own for a longer amount of time than straight blood tanking.

[Cream_Soda]

Even in that case, you'd be far better off in PDT than in guard+ gear, lol

[Franklyn]

Probably right but its the visual confirmation I'm looking for. I don't have much room to comment on MNK, I just got it to 75 recently. Have been working on guarding skill for the last couple weeks. Need 77 and some of that food that increases skill rate to speed it up. 75 MNK with 235 guard skill.

[Paksenarrion]

Just an FYI, SE made a comment about adjusting the difficulty of gaining Parry skill in their thread for DRK. I made a post regarding an adjustment to Guard as another thing they can look into. You can find that post here, with the original quote and link to the source.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...765#post160765

[Michae]

You can skill up guard just fine as a pup, so all you mnk who lolpup need to take a look at the fast ways pups can skill it up. There are vids and techniques out there, but at the same time u need to lvl pup to do it. Which also entails spending a bit of money on the job and camping some nm for gear like we used to do pre-aby. I was able to get my guard skill up just fine as pup using the pup quick guard skills methods that are all over the net to stay caught up as I lvled it. Just do a google search. Who knows maybe it will even give you more appreciation for the job if you give it a chance and not just complain about having to play it. Its really not that bad if ppl can get past their bias and actually learn the job.

[Anza]

You can skill up guard just fine as a pup, so all you mnk who lolpup need to take a look at the fast ways pups can skill it up.

As a PUP main and a lv90 MNK who had near capped guard at 75 thanks to LOTS of solo time on PUP in 2006-2009... it's still hell to skill up guard on PUP. And Guard still sucks, making it a waste of time to bother with in my opinion.

I'm willing to bet that there always something you can do to improve yourself more than going out with the intent of skilling up guard. If you get skillups while you're doing something else, cool. But don't make a point to focus on guard or you will be disappointed.

[Cursed]

because mnk needs more defensive statistics.

I suppose you would prefer it if WAR got some decent native defense abilities/traits?
ofc, so they could just zerg shit without needing any support and down everything in 30-45 seconds with no real penalties or challenge.

[TRiPP]

I enjoy this conversation. I think it's comical as hell to be honest.
However, I don't understand why some people are getting so overly defensive over asking for some visual proof. Anyone can say things, and even if it's researched, people would still like to witness it. Because even with the proper data and proof to prove what you're stating is in fact truth. People just want to witness it so that they can pick up on a few things. They're not going to just go there to cheer you on, they're going there to see what equipment you have, and ask you which atmas you're using, etc. Essentially, it's like your monk going in and dealing let's just pull out a random number 20K without a brew on a Victory Smite. (Reread that in case, you're feeling illiterate and wondering how it would be possible for a Monk to deal that much damage. In fact. Let me make it easier for those who like to jump to conclusion.) Sure, your party saw it, but will anyone else believe you? Even if you had stacked up the proper Strength, and proper atmas? Hell no.

Everyone learns differently, it shouldn't be any surprise that it would be the same with anything statistics wise. Because sometimes seeing is more believing then taking someone's word without showing them a visual. Either way, I'm enjoying this conversation. Please continue. Just thought I'd jump in and say something. In b4 puffing your face like a balloon and getting offended because I'm letting you know that people learn things differently, remember. I'm not attempting to prove you wrong. I'm just helping alleviate miscommunication. While Guard may be completely useless or not useless at all. (Not choosing a side to be honest.) The blue number is still nice.

I suppose you would prefer it if WAR got some decent native defense abilities/traits?
ofc, so they could just zerg shit without needing any support and down everything in 30-45 seconds with no real penalties or challenge.

Ahaha, that my friend is called an FC Party. However, and unfortunately it requires a Red Mage. Or sooner or later a White mage. Because they'll eventually give WHM Phalanx as well.
However, the question stands do they need that many traits of Fencer? Seems like such a waste on a job that mains a two handed weapon. (For warrior mind you.)

Regardless, take it as you will. Offensive or not. Just thought I'd point it out. Take it easy.