WAR Job Ability 90+: "Weapon Mastery"

[kingfury]

This idea is like almost every other idea posted on these boards thus far. Some absurd request that essentially overpowers one job to the point where no others are required and that would completely imbalance several aspects of the game.

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Please do me a great favor and explain in what way a WAR being able to use a weapon skill would make any other job obsolete or not needed? If you can do so, then my friend your true beef is with SE and not my request at all lol.
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If any job in this game's only last true relevance and purpose is hinged on solely being to perform a weapon skill that no one else has access to, you should be worried more about adding to their abilities and not trying to encumber mine lol. Again I'll ask how gaining access to the standard weapon skills (or even quested ws's for that matter) would upset the game balance or over power a WAR? Would the fact that a WAR could use Hexa Strike really make WHM's near 0% usage during any party setting less relevant? Maybe the fact that if a WAR could use Sidewinder, would make a RNG completely worthless, right? Again, if that's the case, you should create your own thread that cry out for more power to the jobs you're worried about.
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Since you obviously don't understand what kind of dmg a WAR can do with his/her 13 usable weapons, perhaps you should lvl WAR 1st before requesting me to lvl a job that doesn't have as much versatility. If you understood the already built-in variety that a WAR has as a melee, you would see that I'm only asking for the next NATURAL step in a WARs evolution which is to get the most out of having access to so many weapons at such high skill lvls. The name of the request is based on an already built-in game mechanic man, "Weapon Mastery".
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A good WAR will continue to keep all his/her weapons up to capped skill lvls in the upcoming lvl increases regardless, but just picture this concept for a sec and tell me if it doesn't seem wasted to you:
WAR Level 99: Able to wield 13 weapons all capped skill levels, ranging somewhere in the high 300's(the lowest skills) to mid 400's(the B+ and A+ skills) if not higher, and only having access to 5/11+ dagger weapon skills... /stagger lol sounds like an incredible waste to me.
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Sorry but you should do your research before trying to blast a Valid request friend.

[ringthree]

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Please do me a great favor and explain in what way a WAR being able to use a weapon skill would make any other job obsolete or not needed? If you can do so, then my friend your true beef is with SE and not my request at all lol.
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Most players don't care about game balance until the game is balanced against them. While you may think your idea is great, SE has to consider all players and all jobs when maintaining game balance. Your argument is essentially that WAR should be able to do just about every WS in the game. Why would you bring any other job when WAR can do every single WS? Why would WAR or any other job have any unique aspects to their melee damage if that was the case?

You aren't thinking about game balance at all, and that is the premier consideration for SE when they are going to make a change to the game.

If you want to suggest a change, you should start by considering how the change will effect the entirety of the game. This will make the suggestion more legitimate. Just suggesting something that you think is "cool" without any thought about game balance is the fastest why to get a dev to look at your suggestion, roll their eyes, and move on.

[Mirage]

Lol Well I'm a fan of JA's like Defender and Retaliation As soon as they wear off, you can just pop the JA again to put them back on if you need them ^^ it makes things so much nicer... Bad Berserk and Aggressor /recast timers, BAD!

Sounds like you don't get it.

That ability description uses "temporary" to make the ability not sound overpowered, when it in fact is a fulltime ability with no downsides. It is essentially the same as changing war to have every WS innately without the need to use this ability. I am a war main and I think this ability is terrible.

I'd much rather see an overall adjustment to battle skills, seeing as A-grade skills grow incredibly much faster than B, making B-grade weapons even more inaccurate than they were before. This isn't a war-only change though, and would help classes that have B-skill as their best, such as WHM with clubs, or PLDs using greatswords for more damage cause they can't tank anyway :>.

[Mojo]

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Please do me a great favor and explain in what way a WAR being able to use a weapon skill would make any other job obsolete or not needed? If you can do so, then my friend your true beef is with SE and not my request at all lol.
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If any job in this game's only last true relevance and purpose is hinged on solely being to perform a weapon skill that no one else has access to, you should be worried more about adding to their abilities and not trying to encumber mine lol. Again I'll ask how gaining access to the standard weapon skills (or even quested ws's for that matter) would upset the game balance or over power a WAR? Would the fact that a WAR could use Hexa Strike really make WHM's near 0% usage during any party setting less relevant? Maybe the fact that if a WAR could use Sidewinder, would make a RNG completely worthless, right? Again, if that's the case, you should create your own thread that cry out for more power to the jobs you're worried about.
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Since you obviously don't understand what kind of dmg a WAR can do with his/her 13 usable weapons, perhaps you should lvl WAR 1st before requesting me to lvl a job that doesn't have as much versatility. If you understood the already built-in variety that a WAR has as a melee, you would see that I'm only asking for the next NATURAL step in a WARs evolution which is to get the most out of having access to so many weapons at such high skill lvls. The name of the request is based on an already built-in game mechanic man, "Weapon Mastery".
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A good WAR will continue to keep all his/her weapons up to capped skill lvls in the upcoming lvl increases regardless, but just picture this concept for a sec and tell me if it doesn't seem wasted to you:
WAR Level 99: Able to wield 13 weapons all capped skill levels, ranging somewhere in the high 300's(the lowest skills) to mid 400's(the B+ and A+ skills) if not higher, and only having access to 5/11+ dagger weapon skills... /stagger lol sounds like an incredible waste to me.
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Sorry but you should do your research before trying to blast a Valid request friend.

It should be pretty clear as to why this would imbalance the game. Efficiently playing Abyssea content revolves around weaponskill procs. WAR has access to a good number of them. What you're asking for is essentially access to almost all of. WAR can already tank most NMs in Abyssea with the support of a lone WHM, so essentially you would be rendering every other melee job pointless or second choice to WAR in terms of efficiency. Even outside of Abyssea this would be a bad step as it goes a good measure towards removing uniqueness of other jobs. You really think that a WAR should be just as adept at using a dagger as a THF?

Also, not that it should matter, but WAR is one of my favorite jobs. I'm one piece short of full Ravager's +2 and about 1/3 of the way through a completed Ukonsvarasa. Perhaps you should drop the air of arrogance you carry in assuming other players don't play jobs they don't want to see become absurdly imbalanced? Again, if you want to be capable of doing things that other jobs can do, then go level other jobs instead of asking devs to just give you everything.

[Valkrist]

This is a completely ridiculous idea. While you may think that giving WAR access to almost every WS in the game is a moot point, it's really asking for SE to break WAR even further.

Outside of Abyssea it may not matter so much for a WAR to be able to use Dancing Edge or Hexa Strike since, "my skill in the weapons will be nonexistant and that WARs don't have access to all the good weapons for this type. There's no way that I can do any real damage just by knowing all the WSes." But considering that almost everything in FFXI revolves around Abyssea nowadays, this would completely destroy the need to diversify jobs in the zones. Instead of needing a MNK and WHM around to proc all blue !!, let's just bring in a WAR. Instead of having a DRG and RNG, we'll just use a single WAR again. We need to proc red !!, we'll just bring a single WAR again since they do have a katana and great katana they can use as well.

The entire idea behind the !! system was to force jobs that may not normally be used, to be used. While it's true that WAR won't be doing damage with all those newfound WSes, it will completely ruin this system that was designed to help breaking the mold of, "SAM DDs onry." This ability you're proposing is doing absolutely nothing but causing the game to take one giant step backwards.

[kingfury]

alright, now we have a good o'l fashion debate on our hands
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Okie dokie, lets talk about this fear of WAR getting too much stuff that it would make other melee/DD jobs pointless 1st. In terms of Abyssea triggers, if this is your fear, you should already feel this way since based on the situation (and luck) a WAR really can trigger just about all Red and Blue triggers. Planning ahead, all a WAR has to do is change his/her sub to reduce the chances of not being able to trigger. Soooo, that being said, SE already had this in mind when creating Abyssea, otherwise they would have focused on ALL job specific ws only to trigger Reds and Blues. I'm also sure they realized that WARs efficiency with as many weapons would make them desirable when forming just about any events around Abyssea, so I don't think that argument is very strong either. Here's the point on this particular topic: Being able to more efficiently trigger Red and Blue inside Abyssea doesn't really upset over all game balance especially since Abyssea is a direct contradiction to "Game Balance" in the 1st place lol. Any job can alter their intended job role inside Abyssea by choosing the right Atmas upon entry, so lets just go ahead and say, who cares if a WAR could trigger all Red and Blue... I mean really, who would care? I mean, I would be pretty happy about it personally, but my point is WAR is already on the edge of this reality as we speak. Abyssea is not the reason I brought up this proposed JA at all truly. My concerns are for the further progression of what WAR already is. It's a dream zone, with dream stats. As soon as you leave, the game's mechanics are back to normal right? So, lets toss that fear to the wind since Abyssea party sizes are down to 2-3 members anyway.
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To Mirage and Ringtree- I say it sounds much more logical to give WAR access to all the standard weapon skills based on the 13 weapons we can use. WARs are the only job that have the unique pleasure of wielding all these weapons. A weapon skill doesn't make a job unique, job abilities make a job unique. A WAR has access to 11/15 possible sword ws's that a PLD can use. Does this mean a PLD is being robed of it's uniqueness because a WAR can do these 11 ws's? Absolutely not, and that fact would remain should a WAR have access to more ws's. A PLDs uniqueness comes from it's JAs and design. With that logic alone, a job ability that gave access to weapon skills would speak DIRECTLY to the functionality built into a WAR. SCH is a great example of this. SE designed SCHs to be versatile Mages, giving them access to both sides of Light and Dark magic right. That's their DESIGN. Using a JOB ABILITY (stratagems) to further expand their intended design. A WAR is designed to be the MOST versatile melee job in the game, so that's their DESIGN. (So to focus on your comment Mirage) Just like SCH has JAs that further unlock their effectiveness, a job ability such as "Weapon Mastery" would be no different. The draw back to my proposed JA is that not ALL ws's would be available (which is VERY similar if not exactly what SCHs do with stratagems, they don't gain access to ALL Light and Dark spells), just the standard ones plus any quested ws you've already unlocked. It's not stepping out of the design to ask for a JA as we approach lvl 99 that makes this fact shine like never before. It's not just me thinking it would be "cool" to have, and you don't have to take my word for what SE planned for a WAR to be. Just look at the skill lvls on the weapons and tell me what you think is logical progression for a non DRK having a scythe skill at 341 at lvl 90 with 9 more lvls to go should be.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Warrior
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Aaannndd to Mr.Mojo- the top argument squashes the 1st half of your comment. Abyssea isn't meant to be a "balanced" zone in the slightest, so there's no weight to this argument. Again I'll point out that ws's don't make a job unique, Job abilities do. A war being able to do a ws shouldn't rob any other jobs uniqueness in the slightest. It's not me that thinks WAR should be adept at using a dagger, it's SE. War has a B- in dagger skill currently at lvl 90 and the job is designed to be adept at all things melee:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Categoryaggers

For the latter half of your comment, I think the above argument deals with this fairly well. Point one: I'm sure you already understand that the gear you have means ka'put in terms of actually understanding and/or being an expert at ones job so I won't spend much time on that point. Point two: The real questions in regards to understanding the argument at hand are: Are all of your skill lvls capped? Yes, even Archery and Marksmanship lol. Do you have 9/10 quested ws's unlocked? If so, do you know how to get the most out of each ws (like pushing each ws to it's full potential)? Things like this is what set an experienced WAR apart from an inexperienced WAR. Now, you may have all melee jobs lvl'd and can say yes to these questions, but it's not arrogance if I've spent every year since '04 building/refining my skills only on WAR, it's just plain o'l experience. I don't claim to know everything about this game by no means, but I take pride in understanding the mechanics of WAR. I hold the same respect for other pros of their respective jobs, and truly believe that a WAR having access to certain ws's (NOT ALL lol never said all) SHOULD NOT be able to steal their thunder or uniqueness one bit. END
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Thanks for all the great feedback by the way to everyone even if you don't agree ^^ It helps greatly when others make you look harder into something you truly care about.

[kingfury]

This is a completely ridiculous idea. While you may think that giving WAR access to almost every WS in the game is a moot point, it's really asking for SE to break WAR even further.

Outside of Abyssea it may not matter so much for a WAR to be able to use Dancing Edge or Hexa Strike since, "my skill in the weapons will be nonexistant and that WARs don't have access to all the good weapons for this type. There's no way that I can do any real damage just by knowing all the WSes." But considering that almost everything in FFXI revolves around Abyssea nowadays, this would completely destroy the need to diversify jobs in the zones. Instead of needing a MNK and WHM around to proc all blue !!, let's just bring in a WAR. Instead of having a DRG and RNG, we'll just use a single WAR again. We need to proc red !!, we'll just bring a single WAR again since they do have a katana and great katana they can use as well.

The entire idea behind the !! system was to force jobs that may not normally be used, to be used. While it's true that WAR won't be doing damage with all those newfound WSes, it will completely ruin this system that was designed to help breaking the mold of, "SAM DDs onry." This ability you're proposing is doing absolutely nothing but causing the game to take one giant step backwards.

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See my recent post in regards to trying to speak "Balance" in reference to Abyssea zones

[Mirage]

stuff

It's not really a "job ability" because it can be on all the time, and has no downsides at all. Might as well just make WAR gain permanent access to the WSes at level 90.

Maybe it could work if it had some solid drawbacks, wore off after using a single WS, and had a longer recast.

[Shadowgabriel]

like the idea but i think it would be better as a single use with a long recast rather than the 2 min.

[Valkrist]

In terms of Abyssea triggers, if this is your fear, you should already feel this way since based on the situation (and luck) a WAR really can trigger just about all Red and Blue triggers. Planning ahead, all a WAR has to do is change his/her sub to reduce the chances of not being able to trigger. Soooo, that being said, SE already had this in mind when creating Abyssea, otherwise they would have focused on ALL job specific ws only to trigger Reds and Blues.

It is true that WAR currently can proc most !! for red, but it is absolutely not true for blue. This Job Ability would effectively remove BLM, COR, DNC, DRG, DRK, MNK, NIN, RNG, SAM, SCH, SMN, THF, and WHM from ever being used in Abyssea again for procing blue. That alone unbalances Abyssea's need for anything but WAR and a healer.

They did have this in mind when they designed red !! to be general WS that can be used by most jobs. It's red specifically because this is the key item proc that can be used by everyone. Whereas blue !! are from job specific WSes for things that are gear drop specific. The harder things and more sought after things. In other words need a higher variety of jobs to have an increased chance of drop rate.

Being able to more efficiently trigger Red and Blue inside Abyssea doesn't really upset over all game balance especially since Abyssea is a direct contradiction to "Game Balance" in the 1st place lol. Any job can alter their intended job role inside Abyssea by choosing the right Atmas upon entry, so lets just go ahead and say, who cares if a WAR could trigger all Red and Blue... I mean really, who would care? I mean, I would be pretty happy about it personally, but my point is WAR is already on the edge of this reality as we speak.

What you don't understand is what you just said was the reality of things even before Abyssea. Everything was limited to a very few selected jobs, restricting players that don't have those jobs to never be included. Yes Abyssea upset the balance, or lack of balance that FFXI originally had. At least now with the !! system, the people that only have jobs like PUP can be invited to participate. This greatly rebalanced the game so that the not so popular jobs are now viable in certain roles.

So, lets toss that fear to the wind since Abyssea party sizes are down to 2-3 members anyway.

While this is true for you and a lot of people, this is not true for everyone. Not everyone has the luxury or the ability to be in lowman groups. Just because this change doesn't do anything game breaking for you aside from it just being "cool", doesn't mean this doesn't effect other players on a massive scale. Not everyone can lowman things simply because their jobs of preference are not the preferred jobs of the general populous. In a single swipe, you completely denied thirteen jobs from participating. That translates into a lot of players missing out on content just because you just want to be cooler.

I say it sounds much more logical to give WAR access to all the weapon skills based on the 13 weapons we can use since they have the unique pleasure of wielding all these weapons. A weapon skill doesn't make a job unique, job abilities make a job unique. With that logic alone, a job ability that gave access to weapon skills would speak DIRECTLY to the functionality built into a WAR. SCH is a great example of this. SE designed SCHs to be versatile Mages, giving them access to both sides of Light and Dark magic right. That's their DESIGN. A WAR is designed to be the MOST versatile melee job in the game, so that's their DESIGN.

Just because WAR has access to thirteen weapon groups does not mean that they have become or should become a master of all of them.

What makes a job unique is more than their Job Abilities. Their ability to use job specific WS greatly effect what defines them as that class. What you've essentially stated is that every job should have access to every weapon, because it's not the weapon that defines the job what-so-ever. Yes, what will DRK be when WAR gets access to Guillotine? A WAR that rarely uses it's Job Abilities, with just slightly higher skill as well as access to some magic, but lacks every single thing that WAR powerful. Yes that's defines a DRK, his ability to Soul Eater; because we all know that WARs are equally good at using scythes as well.

Just because WAR has access to so many weapon types and SCH has access to so many magic types, doesn't mean they're meant to be used in all situations, or even in any situation. Just because my car has four wheels doesn't automatically make it just as effective in the water as four wheeled cars specifically designed to be amphibious.

WARs are very versatile, but they aren't always asked to come to certain events due to other jobs simply because of their differences. SCH's the same way. SCH can both nuke and cure, but it by no means can replace either a nuker or a healer. Your suggestion is simply saying SCH by DESIGN should replace BLM and a WHM. WARs should replace all other DDs, tanks, healers and nukers. I mean, they're DESIGNed to be versatile. You're the one that said,

Any job can alter their intended job role inside Abyssea by choosing the right Atmas upon entry