Camlann's Torment

[Lancil]

I'll admit I was disappointed with Camlanns when I first got it and became especially jellous when a sam friend of mine started to do ridiculous damage with fudo(not even mentioning the skillchains). But I kind of get the feeling SE made Camlanns specifically to Skillchain with drakesbane. /Sam and the new jumps I can self SC at least 3 times in 5 min. Thats more than what I can do on my sam. Perhaps Camlanns isn't supposed to do incredible amounts of damage because of a dragoons rapid tp gain. Doing it this way you still get your aftermath and do about the same damage you would have done if you just did 2 drakesbanes back to back.

[Insaniac]

I love my Rhongo. Camlann's > Drakes > Drakes > Repeat. I have an easy 5 hit for the 2nd drakes and usually go no more than 5 seconds without my aftermath. I don't really have a problem with the VIT mod either. There is a ton of gear with both VIT and STR on it. You can hit near +70 VIT while maintaining +60ish STR. You can also trade VV/RR/Apoc for Savior/RR/Apoc. You lose the DA Regain and 20 STR but gain 30 VIT and a lot more survivability for you and your wyvern. I would be lying if I said I wouldn't like to see at least Fudo numbers out of Camlann's though.

[jamver]

would like that if pet got aftermath also

[Granny]

Yes Square-Enix PLEASE oh please adjust Camlann's Torment weapon skill. I have been playing drg for a very long time and finnaly through abyssea have the opportunity to get a good weapon for drg which is my favorite job. I worked very hard on getting the full version of the weapon with ws and aftermath and am very very disapointed. The weaponskill is one of the worst there is, there is no reason to use it which makes aftermath useless, and the weapon useless...

Red mage even gets a weapon skill that does easly double what dragoons does, which is just wrong for the dragoon community, along with the fact it's near impossible to keep our wyverns alive which if we can keep them alive long enough to pop out a healing breath which we still only have the highest teir healing breath from level 60... which is highly outdated.

The only way this weaponskill could possibly be worth useing is if the "ignores deffence" was 100% so it's mediocor damage would be at least decent on some type of HNM...

PLEASE SE HEAR MY CRY

[Sekundes]

For those who are curious, testing seems to indicate that Ryu is not only the best weapon for drg but the best weapon currently in the game.

Also, a Drg with one can be considered the best straight dd in the game if you do not count things such as counters or retaliation which can vary so it's hard to say without defining a very specific set of criteria. Granted this is based of theoretical testing meaning that without having exact damage formulas it can't be perfect and this is calculated so results can vary since both jobs would have to follow a very strict tp cycle to meet numbers like this.

If your curious there is a thread about it on AH.

[Sekundes]

I don't want to go into the details, but you cannot do Camlanns>Camlanns>Camlanns for double light. You could do Camlanns>Drakes and close with Camlanns, or vice versa to make double.

You are right, as far as my testing has shown. As for the second style, you can do this but it's VERY hard to do with just one drg because you have to hit that third ws before the light animation finishes. It is a very short window.

[Dathus]

You are right, as far as my testing has shown. As for the second style, you can do this but it's VERY hard to do with just one drg because you have to hit that third ws before the light animation finishes. It is a very short window.

Sekka + Jump timers up + Meditate = no problem.

[Luces]

Yes Square-Enix PLEASE oh please adjust Camlann's Torment weapon skill. I have been playing drg for a very long time and finnaly through abyssea have the opportunity to get a good weapon for drg which is my favorite job. I worked very hard on getting the full version of the weapon with ws and aftermath and am very very disapointed. The weaponskill is one of the worst there is, there is no reason to use it which makes aftermath useless, and the weapon useless...

Red mage even gets a weapon skill that does easly double what dragoons does, which is just wrong for the dragoon community, along with the fact it's near impossible to keep our wyverns alive which if we can keep them alive long enough to pop out a healing breath which we still only have the highest teir healing breath from level 60... which is highly outdated.

The only way this weaponskill could possibly be worth useing is if the "ignores deffence" was 100% so it's mediocor damage would be at least decent on some type of HNM...

PLEASE SE HEAR MY CRY

SE answer to you is gear properly, of the people I have scene use CT don't have any issues braking 2k and going higher, wile not on par with drakes you should be able to maintain 2.5k+ CT's easly, if you don't have the gear to do this then you shouldn't have built the weapon first. Quitis can hit 3k in or out of abyssea if geared properly as well why they may not throw out the 5k+wtf lucky numbers the other ws can, but they both hold up better outside of abyssea, then most the others esp once we get new content when that ignoring defense is going to matter again. We aren't 99 yet chill out. Also CDC on a rdm can do twice as much ONLY if all the hits critical and you are inside abyssea with atmas for this, which if you go dd atma's purely on rdm you will be around 50% critical hit rate so. It would be nice, but no rdm lacks the sword skill and armor to be able to average anywhere near the numbers of a blu using CDC. Drg can also ws WAY more often, and self skillchain a light with CT(which before hand you where loosing damage for a weak skillchain if you wanted to skillchain for some odd reason) without going out of their way, where as rdm would have to be subbing samurai and have sekk up, in order to do this.

Please think logically instead of crying.

[Stromgarde]

Okay, let's think logically then.

Please allow me to run the relevant math by you. The issue at hand is a disparity between CT and other non-crit Empyrean WS, such as Tachi: Fudo and Torcleaver; Let us perform an apples to apples comparison, using the level 85 weapons of two heavy DD jobs as examples.

Outside of Abyssea, Camlann's Torment's maximum damage is as follows, with 84 base VIT and this (link) weaponskill set.

FLOOR((125+21+77)*2.31*(3.0+0.1+0.1))=1648 damage; this does not change with TP.
Each additional hit yields a possibility of up to 688 damage.

In contrast, let us look at Torcleaver, another WS with a 60% VIT modifier. Unlike Camlann's Torment, it increases in damage with TP, whereas Camlann's Torment has a relatively useless 10% ignore defense property at 100% TP and scales linearly to 50% ignores defense at 300% TP, which is still useless outside of Abyssea due to pDIF almost always being capped. Inside Abyssea, Drakesbane is generally a far better choice by up to double, so the pragmatic choice is to just spam that, with few exceptions.

Outside of Abyssea, Torcleaver's maximum damage is as follows, with 84 base VIT and this (link) weaponskill set.

At 100, 200, and 300% TP:
FLOOR((109+20+73)*2.31*(4.75+0.1+0.1))=2309 damage.
FLOOR((109+20+73)*2.31*(5.75+0.1+0.1))=2933 damage.
FLOOR((109+20+73)*2.31*(6.5+0.1+0.1))=3557 damage, with additional hits capable of dealing up to 624 damage each.

Quietus suffers from the same problems as CT does, in addition to having a split modifier which is its own headache.

I want the fTP modifier increased for both of these WS.

[Aequis]

Great to see people discussing this intelligently. The Rhongomiant actually suffers from a bad reputation in general, with a lot of people thinking it's "worthless" and that you're stupid to even think of working on it. I've had a few people literally tell me I'm "wasting my time". Around 13 fangs from my lv85 version now, so fortunately for them, I don't take their comments too seriously.

Not too hard to get a VIT build, like Insaniac said. I used to have one for the old jumps. And I agree with our wyverns needing Healing Breath IV but it would probably be limited, as you can do upwards of 1000+ HB III right now - outside of Abyssea, with proper gear set.