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  1. #11
    Player Rambus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    1,561
    Character
    Rambus
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Unlink double shot and Unliminted shot, I want to know why SE did that, no reason for it.

    Upgradeable/ or special properties of WS ammo (Aeolus arrow comes from mind, it is a rare ex drop from a NM, Not something i want to shoot without unlimited shot.

    3. More ammunition.

    One of the most crippling problems with Ranger is the lack of ammunition available. A trip to the auction house will show you that higher level arrows and bullets are either extremely expensive or simply not available. This is probably because of Ranger's general lack of popularity but also because the materials require to make most ammunition are difficult to obtain. Making NPCs that sell or synthesize ammo for you would be awesome. Not only is the lack of ammunition a problem but the lack of variety is as well. Ranger has dozens of bolts, arrows and bullets they can use from level 1 until 60. All of them with different effects and purposes. From 60 to 90 ammo quickly boils down to highest base damage. Having higher level equivalents to status effect and elemental effect ammo would be extremely cool.
    People don't want to farm, People want to spend thier time in abyssea so that leads to a big slow down of farming and crafting. With help of a friend and spending about 100k for materals and tips , and 3 hours time farming I got 6 stacks of 12 antlion quivers. I posted my consern about that concept here:
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...a-and-crafting
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player Kiba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    104
    Character
    Coconuts
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 1
    So far all the suggestions made in this thread to improve the usefulness of the ranger job I really like. I certainly agree to be comparable to other damage dealing jobs attack power, damage over time by enabling rangers to shoot while moving, and availability of ammo are all areas that need to be improved.

    Also on a side note like Rambus mentioned I would like to know as well the reasoning behind double shot canceling unlimited shot. Since unlimited shot only applies to one attack round or using barrage it shouldn't be bad as far
    as usage considering the possibility of recycle kicking in.

    My question to the Development Team would be what is exactly the intended use for Bounty Shot besides a larger loot pool? When Treasure Hunter is on it nullifies the effect of Bounty Shot. So its use would be more for just farming mats and being a cheaper alternative when there is no Thf in party.

    My ideas on improving the job to add onto the list:
    4) Archery and Marksmanship do not have any area of effect weapon skills. It would be really nice if the ranger job can join in on the AOE popularity great axe and dagger users are currently utilizing. This would help rangers become more useful in exp parties and farming in Abyssea. So either a new aoe weaponskill or adding an AOE effect when using a job ability in conjunction with barrage would make it happen.
    5) With the introduction of bounty shot, Rangers have first entered a different job function other than damage dealing. I would like to see the Ranger job become involved in other uses such as party support abilities. I was joking with my friend the other day that it would be fun if I can shoot him with an arrow to cure him up :P If something like healing arrow is introduced it would be fun if the amount cure depends on ranged distance, critical hit, and cure potency. Arrows that remove status effects, dispel enemy buffs would be cool too.
    6) Lastly, just a wild thought that came to mind. The way I look at it fishing and playing ranger are very similar. It would be fun if Rangers had an ability(every 10-20minutes similar to merit abilities) which when activated starts a gauge to charge up a very strong ranged attack. If successful deals damage and inflicts a defense down effect.

    That is all I have for now. If my ideas sound silly please excuse me
    (0)

  3. #13
    Player Militis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    20
    Character
    Thetruemonkey
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Personally, as a career RNG, I haven't noticed the whole DMG issue you guys speak of. Either it's my career/skill level with the job and/or a lot of the close-range DDs I've played with but I've always felt on par if not superior to their DPS output, and the benefit is ranged attacks give virtually no TP, especially /NIN with subtle blow.. Although I agree it could be better. Also on another note, purhaps it's about time we see another advancement to Wide Scan. previously we saw an upgrade every 20 levels. So what about Wide Scan VI for level 80. Personally the biggest asset I tend to bring to my linkshell when we're out spamming NMs in Abyss is my ability to scan for time-spawn NMs. This would assist in this purpose. And also if Double Shot is going to share a timer with Unlimited Shot, than shouldn't it also be effected by the merits that lower Unlimited Shot recast? We have status bolts/arrows for just about every spell debuff out there, perhaps it's time we get an amnesia ammo too, or a more reliable stun ammo?
    (0)

  4. #14
    Player noodles355's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    884
    Character
    Kurriko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    COR Lv 99
    I agree with a lot in this topic and would also like to add some views of my own. Firstly some comments on the above:

    The OP is right on ranger damage. Ranger not only has the highest DMG weapons available in the game but it also uses the function fStr2, not fStr like melees, meaning that it only takes 2-3 Str to raise Base Damage by one, unlike the 4-6 Str it takes a melee. This pushes our Base Damage even higher. Ranger's Base Damage is the highest of any job in the game, yet our damage per hit does definitely not reflect this.

    Furthermore, as stated above: Critical hits. Critical hits do very little to a ranged attack in comparison to a melee round. If you gave a melee job a 3.5ftp weaponskill with a 30% Agi mod that could critical hit, it would be a very strong weaponskill in abyssea. I would like to compare this WS with Blade: Hi, which is 4.0ftp 60% AGI. Blade: Hi has higher ftp and WSC mod, and also has a second hit. But then please appreciate that a Naked Blade: Hi will be with a weapon that has roughly 70 Base damage if you had around 80 Str naked and were using a 50ish Damage Katana. In comparison, the weaponskill I mention above would be with a 200 Base Damage weapon (150ish dmg gun+bullet, 80 Str naked). Blade: Hi is an incredibly strong weaponskill. That weaponskill I mention above is Heavy Shot. It is a very average weaponskill inside abyssea with Crit Rate/Crit Damage atmas.

    This is an example of how Base Damage seems to mean very little, and how critical hits are so weak for ranger.

    The 2nd serious point is as Mirabelle makes: Moving the enemy with attacks. There are two types of enmity, Volatile and Cumulative Enmity (VE and CE). With our damage output being lower than melees, we will have lower CE built up and will thus not be tanking the mob, however there is still the issue of VE. A strong weaponskill can generate enough VE to get the mob's attention even if you are low on it's hate list. This will cause the mob to move to you. What this means is either:
    a) You move the mob, annoying all the melees and possibly causing them to miss WS through the mob being too far away.
    b) You stay in melee distance to stop this problem, but then take a significant hit to your damage output.
    This really needs to be addressed.

    On a related note: The enmity genreated by Camoflage is too high. If you use Camoflage before a Barrage and land most of the hits, you will have generated less enmity than if you hadn't used camoflage. However if you use Camoflage and only land a few, or miss your barrage, then you've just generated needless extra enmity.

    The third point I would like to make is about Ranger's defence. Or lack of defence.
    Ranger has no native damage mitigation (Such as Thf and Nin's Evasion, Mnk and War's Counter, Sam's Seigan, Pld's Shield)
    Ranger has no native self-healing (Such as Drg's Wyvern, Dnc's Sambers, Pld's Cures)
    Ranger has no native enmity-shedding ability (Such as Drg's High and Super Jump, Blm's Enmity Douse)
    On top of that it's selection of -Physical Damage Taken gear is pitifully low. We can't equip the Darksteel+1 armor set, the Gavial/Hydra set, the Arhat's Set and none of the Heavy Armor options (Valhalla, Grim, Heavy Gauntlets, etc). The only gear we have access to is the same "All Jobs" equipment that everyone else has access to too.

    Furthermore, the way ranged attacks are calulated makes this a large problem, not just a mild-annoyance:
    A Melee attack is calulated instantly at the start of the turn. This means anytime during their delay phase they can cast a spell, or use a JA or WS or item etc. Ranger can't. When you fire a shot, you first have Aiming delay, based off the delay of your gun/bow/xbox. The only way to interupt this delay is to move about, but even if you move about the cancelation of the shot is not instant, you still have to wait the same amount of time. After you fire your shot you then have a 2nd phase of delay where you can do nothing at all (The old: "You must wait longer to perform that action" notice. Essentially, once you start a shot, you are stuck shooting untill the shot has completely fired. During this time you can't do anything. If the enemy is attacking you it's very easy to take a lot of damage (especially from NMs) during this time. The only option you have is to throw on -PDT gear, but as I stated above, ranger has very limited access to -PDT gear.
    To be honest, if that was a real situation and a monster was attacking me, I wouldn't just stand there and take a beating whilst doing nothing for 5 seconds. I'd stop aiming and try to defend myself! Would it be possible to interupt the aiming phase of a ranged attack, cancelling it, to use a JA or spell?

    So ranger has no defence worth mentioning, but to be honest I can understand why: SE's original intent for this job was obviously as some sort of Glass Cannon. That would be fine if the Cannon part was true, but as this thread shows: it's just not. Ranger is more of a Glass Peashooter.

    What other DD job in the game conciders Novia Earring as a worthwhile TP piece? What other DD in the game conciders a SJ purely for a 33% Enmity shedding ability? None. That's the state ranger is in now. Regarding enmity there is one thing oh so very very simple that SE could do. Simple and reasonable. Make Camoflage shed enmity. Dragoon can remove 100% of it's enmity every 3 minutes. Ranger has a MUCH bigger enmity problem than dragoon. Why can't Ranger do the same?

    Re: Militis, please don't take this as an atatck, it's anything but that. You may feel on par with other DDs, but guess what? I've outdamaged many DDs on Bard before abyssea was released. Does that mean bard is a good melee job? No. Comparing yourself to random DDs is not an accurate way to measure your strength. You must either compare yourself to an equally geared and played job, or compare yourself to yourself on another job. On top of that you will need to parse the results. Eyeballing is also not an effective way to accurately deduce a job's DD potential.
    (0)

  5. #15
    Player Mirabelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    DeadParrotSociety
    Posts
    354
    Personally, as a career RNG, I haven't noticed the whole DMG issue you guys speak of. Either it's my career/skill level with the job and/or a lot of the close-range DDs I've played with but I've always felt on par if not superior to their DPS output
    Oh I can out damage a lot of DD's on RNG. THis is part do to my damage outut and part due to the fact the mob is always running away from the other DD to my position, causing them to miss hits and WS's. It's amazing how good you look when hate is scattered all over. And its fun to have the WHM's complain about all the Cure's you are needing as you try to tank the mob with minimal skills to do so. Is it any wonder RNG are so rarely invited anymore.
    THe dstance penalty is the elephant in the closet. Nobody wants a DD that moves the mob all over the place. Yet that is what we are stuck doing if we try to compete for damage. its either that or stand face to face with the mob and have our damage nerfed.
    It's a real problem.
    And WS needs to indicate if a mob is claimed or not to be truly useful.
    (0)
    Yo Ho Yo Ho, a pirate's life for me!

  6. #16
    Player koyukii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    2
    Character
    Koyukii
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    RNG Lv 90
    atma of luminous wings, a lot of enmity- gear, stealth shot, scavenge, Aeolus Arrow + unlimited shot, just that allow me to SPAM ws and the NM never come to see me. with 2 other DD atma (stout arm and VV) i can deal 2K-3K with side and 3k+ with 300tp refulgent arrow all that in a 6 player group.
    Hate isn't a matter , i play rng/war every day ok i accept to lose some dmg power with a 3rd DD atma but the survivability is more important and the mage can focus only on the tank.

    i want like every rng an other enmity JA ,a way to have a defensive ability (like blm), moving while using arrow will be awesome for the job, separate double shot from unlimited shot (that's stupid i still don't understand it), an other way to save ammo, and of course a a better equality with the critical's ws jobs.
    (0)
    Last edited by koyukii; 03-11-2011 at 09:35 AM.
    RNG COR DNC SCH SAM PLD 90
    Carbuncle

  7. #17
    Player noodles355's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    884
    Character
    Kurriko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    COR Lv 99
    What the hell is steal shot?
    And since when did scavenge do anything useful whatsoever? Also Aeolus Arrow and Unlimited Shot? You can't spam that, it has a 2:30 recast (5/5 merits).

    I don't like your post, but it does prove a point: What single other DD job in the game would concider a support Job ONLY for it's 33% Enmity shedding ability (/Drg)? What other Job would concider Novia Earring or Pax Grip or Troopers Ring a fulltime piece of TP gear? None. Enmity needs to be adressed.

    I see no reason why Dragoon, a job that can equip a decent amount of -PDT gear (30-40% is pretty accessable) AND can Cure it's self for 400-500HP every 1 minute requires a 100% Enmity shed ability on a 3min recast, and yet ranger has nothing similar.

    Just make Camoflage shed 100% of your enmity like super jump. That's a pretty easy fix.


    The big problem is that not enough people play ranged jobs to understand the difference in the damage calulations they use, and thus no one will ever make a big enough deal about it, even though it is completely flawed. But this will require another post. Maybe I'll make one tomorrow.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player Hinabi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    FriendsOfAllNations - Odin
    Posts
    6
    That and put Hot shot/Flaming arrow on the red proc list.
    This ^

    Also, a couple of people have touched on ranger's lack of damage mitigation, curing, evasion, etc and it made me remember the original Ranger that did more damage than most but risked dying if a few hits if they over did it. Now Ranger is on-par with other DDs but still risks dying so easily. Either give us the means to defend ourselves like other DDs or give us the power and damage output to greatly surpass them if we are willing to risk it.
    (1)
    <Ranger><Mantra><You can have this>

  9. #19
    Player Militis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    20
    Character
    Thetruemonkey
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Now what would be awesome is if ranged weapon skills were on the Red proc list and not just the Blue. also tell me why Flame Arrow/ Hot Shot give Ruby light when they are clearly ELEMENTAL! They should be giving Amber, not Ruby.
    (0)

  10. #20
    Player Hoshi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurstian
    Posts
    456
    Character
    Hoshiku
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RNG Lv 99
    Ranger was my first job to 75 and my absolute favorite job. I played pre-nerf and post-nerf and after the 'fix'. I will always love this job but the respect we get from other players is pathetic. I am not allowed to play ranger for ls events because it has been deemed useless for most endgame activities.

    There is an issue of damage output. My ranger had the best gear at 75. With that gear I was able to keep up with all but the best players in my shell. It was upsetting that my gear was equal (or better) than theirs but my damage never equaled or exceeded theirs. I think the thing that puts us at the greatest disadvantage is that we are completely different from other DDs. Haste and march have no benefit for our damage (and these are the primary buffs that other DDs are given). There needs to be something that offsets this full time because in reality other DD will always have haste and march in a group situation and so these DD will always outperform us if we don't get some other kind of buff (perhaps making velocity shot stronger?). SE needs to offset the advantage of these buffs for rangers OR add a buff to these buffs that gives rangers some benefit.

    My other large complaint is about abyssea. Because ranger is useless in abyssea, it is rare that we are allowed to bring ranger to abyssea (there's also the issue of atmas for rangers not being as powerful as double attack/crit atmas). Make hotshot and flaming arrow trigger red !!!. My linkshell refuses to use ranger in abyssea because they have no use for farming KI's and empyrian upgrades. I haven't played ranger since we stopped killing Yilbegan before abyssea was added to the game.

    I agree that enmity is a bit of an issue but I've looked at this as a tradeoff. We don't get hit by AoEs and so we pay a penalty for that. Before abyssea my linkshell brought rangers to any fight with nasty AoE's and we all subbed dragoon to shed hate. We dealt comparable damage to melee DDs as long as we were given double minuet + chaos roll but we required less mp to heal as long as we watched our hate.

    As far as bounty shot goes all I can say is WTF? :P This doesn't stack with TH and THF has more uses for most events (they can deaggro adds, pull NMs, tank, deal great dmg, trigger multiple !!!, help mitigate hate for a party, dispel buffs)... Why give ranger another JA that has little use. I think it would have made more sense to give bounty shot to COR and triple shot to RNG.

    I realize there are other jobs that also need to be fixed to make them more important for abyssea (PLD, DRK, SCH, DRG) but the fact is RNG has been broken much longer than these other jobs and I think it's time it was fixed.
    (0)

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