Concerns about SCH.

[MrButter]

Can you explain how anything will be made weaker by giving SCH more spells? I don't see how making SCH better automatically makes other jobs weaker. RDM will still be exactly the same. That's like saying that making PUP better automatically makes BST and SMN weaker.

Look at Final fantasy 14 and you see what happens when every job has roughly the same abilities.

there are no jobs. Everything is the same. And if you keep up with 14's Development Plan, increasing class uniqueness has become a very high priority.

Scholar has always been treading the fine line between powerful and Broken. It doesn't need any kind of substantial buffing at this point, barring enmity control which i previously mentioned. Furthermore Scholar was not necessarily about Unique spells, it was about using existing spells in new ways through stratagems. Even then it got it's own set of unique buffs and unique DoT spells, and continued in the level cap advances to get it's own unique buffs related to enmity and even regain. It is very much set apart from the three original mage classes. The -Only- point i agree on: Native Access to Banish and possibly Holy might be appropriate, Though I'd probably say only under the effects of addendum: white.

P.S. in case u hadn't noticed, the new jug pets for BST coupled with the fact that BST itself gets respectable DD gear has made it a much better pet job than PUP, who's pet by comparison is now quite weak, even though PUP itself has become a more vivacious damage dealer. Furthermore the only advantage SMN has, and it is a great boon to the job, is it's lack of enmity/tp generation. It's over all damage parse is still, however, less than a BST these days. So it's 'exactly like' BST becoming much better has made PUP in SMN weaker. They are weaker by comparison to BST.

[Sotek]

The issue with giving that, regardless of if they are subjob is two things.

1. It'll weaken RDM and other jobs who get them, for example: Give them all those spells and the only Enfeebling Spell RDM has left is Addle.
2. It'll weaken the point of a majority of jibs.

Huh? Red Mage will still have t2 Enfeebles, Saboteur and En spells to its name. Basic enfeebles aren't even Red Mage spells, they're Black Mage and White Mage spells. I'm just tired of not having certain spells depending on my subjob. If I want Haste, I lose Bio, Bind, etc. That will change come 99 with sub Red Mage gaining Haste, but even then if I want Stun I'll lose Paralyze, Dia, etc.
The way I see Scholar, it should be able to do everything just to a lesser extent. Black Mage can nuker harder than Scholar can now. White Mage would still manage being a better healer even if we got Cure V (with enmity generation greater than Cure IV that is). Scholar is a good enfeebler, but I can hardly say that when the only enfeebles we get are Sleep, Dispel and Break. Regardless of Scholar getting Paralyze/Bind/Blind/etc, Red Mage would still be better at enfeebling, I see no reason for Scholar not to have those spells at the very least.

@Enmity control. I don't really think it actually is needed in FFXI anymore. White Mage has a ridiculously low rate of enmity gain with Cure V+ and Black Mage can completely wipe its hate free. Most damage dealers can tank as well so they don't really need to worry about enmity either.
Spells that give buffs based on enmity could be interesting however. Something along the lines of a spell greatly increases the damage you deal if you have 80% enmity. Something like that would be an incentive to controlling enmity. Scholar would need more enmity based spells to go with it, say two spells, one that gives +1% enmity and one that gives -1%, but at least then I'd feel that Libra is a useful ability that I should be using with such spells if only to ensure people are dealing optimal damage. As it is now, the Animus spells don't require you to use Libra at all and Libra itself is pretty worthless since enmity control isn't a particularly large issue.

[Agerknux]

As my friend once told me, sch seems to be a confused rdm at this point in time. SE has been trying to make every job unique and adding aga-like strategem and Cure V would just make it more of the same.
What would give sch more of a unique feel is possibly a supportive helix spell, maybe a cure-helix type spell that would have the hate of a spell but regen in large chunks equal to amount of cure V~VI.
Helix spells are also something that got me into sch, which is basically a high tier nuke without all that hate jazz.
My sch is pretty much is sitting in my mh because there are other jobs that do what sch can do, but way better.

[Agarak]

I started SCH `cuz of it´s unique weather and helix spells. I don´t want more spells of BLM/WHM/RDM. I want more unique spells.

Weather T2 / Enfeebling:
Just another idea. Let´s say we cast Firestorm II on a mob his resistance against Ice spell DMG will be increased by 10% but the resistance against Water spell DMG gets a 10% decrease. With Stormsurge merits the mobs corresponding stat (STR in this case) will be decreased.

Helix T2:
This could work like a mix of Helix and the NIN elemental wheel. So when we cast Pyrohelix II on a mob it lowers the enemies resistance against Water spells as long as the Helix is on the mob.

[Sotek]

I started SCH `cuz of it´s unique weather and helix spells. I don´t want more spells of BLM/WHM/RDM. I want more unique spells.

I don't want more Black magic or White magic spells, I just want the basic ones that we should have regardless. Without exception they're all obtainable via one subjob or another, I'm hardly asking that we gain Ancient Magic spells, none of them would technically be new to Scholar and in all instances the main job that we derive them from has access to stronger versions regardless.

Yes I'd want new Scholar specific spells as well, but I highly doubt it takes long for preexisting spells to be given to Scholar. It's not like SE has to pick between giving Scholar something new and giving it something it should have had three years ago, or maybe I imagined everything we got last update except Stoneskin/Blink/etc. (which was a bloody good update as I recall).

[Agarak]

Yeah, well, you´re right. We should really get the standard spells. That won´t break the game. The main jobs will still be the best in what they do. With Stoneskin/Blink/etc. they made a step in the right direction. Now we can just hope that we get the other spells too.

[Darkwizardzin]

Seems to me you guys want sch to not have it weak points. Sch already has so much that other jobs don't. To ask for rdm only spells like haste and for Elemental Celerity is nothing short of greed.

The point of the Sch job is that it doesn't have everything blm,whm,rdm has but has a general scope from each area and can increase its power with ja.

Besides SE already gave you those basic spells (blink and stoneskin say hi) so you shouldn't ask for more.

The only thing I think sch needs is cure 5 other than that its a powerful and useful job already so stop trying to make it overpowered.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Huh? Red Mage will still have t2 Enfeebles, Saboteur and En spells to its name. Basic enfeebles aren't even Red Mage spells, they're Black Mage and White Mage spells. I'm just tired of not having certain spells depending on my subjob. If I want Haste, I lose Bio, Bind, etc. That will change come 99 with sub Red Mage gaining Haste, but even then if I want Stun I'll lose Paralyze, Dia, etc.
The way I see Scholar, it should be able to do everything just to a lesser extent. Black Mage can nuker harder than Scholar can now. White Mage would still manage being a better healer even if we got Cure V (with enmity generation greater than Cure IV that is). Scholar is a good enfeebler, but I can hardly say that when the only enfeebles we get are Sleep, Dispel and Break. Regardless of Scholar getting Paralyze/Bind/Blind/etc, Red Mage would still be better at enfeebling, I see no reason for Scholar not to have those spells at the very least.

@Enmity control. I don't really think it actually is needed in FFXI anymore. White Mage has a ridiculously low rate of enmity gain with Cure V+ and Black Mage can completely wipe its hate free. Most damage dealers can tank as well so they don't really need to worry about enmity either.
Spells that give buffs based on enmity could be interesting however. Something along the lines of a spell greatly increases the damage you deal if you have 80% enmity. Something like that would be an incentive to controlling enmity. Scholar would need more enmity based spells to go with it, say two spells, one that gives +1% enmity and one that gives -1%, but at least then I'd feel that Libra is a useful ability that I should be using with such spells if only to ensure people are dealing optimal damage. As it is now, the Animus spells don't require you to use Libra at all and Libra itself is pretty worthless since enmity control isn't a particularly large issue.

T2 enfeebles come at the cost of Merits, so they shouldn't truly be included. The reason they have all those spells is due to the fact they are the Enfeebler... SCH is a battle tactician who learned to use the elements to their advantage despite not being a true mage. Giving them the spells you've said will make them RDM 2.0 without the melee ability. It's 100% not the way SCH should go, it also negates every single jobs benefit as subjob.

They should go down the line off maximising SCH as a unique job, RDM was supposed to be the middle between BLM WHM and WAR, so RDM should be improved in that way. SCH just shouldn't.

[Sotek]

Seems to me you guys want sch to not have it weak points. Sch already has so much that other jobs don't. To ask for rdm only spells like haste and for Elemental Celerity is nothing short of greed.

The point of the Sch job is that it doesn't have everything blm,whm,rdm has but has a general scope from each area and can increase its power with ja.

Besides SE already gave you those basic spells (blink and stoneskin say hi) so you shouldn't ask for more.

The only thing I think sch needs is cure 5 other than that its a powerful and useful job already so stop trying to make it overpowered.

As far as I know no one has asked for Elemental Celerity and Haste isn't Red Mage only. We've been given basic enhancing spells yes, that's pretty much the only reason I really want basic enfeebling spells now.

T2 enfeebles come at the cost of Merits, so they shouldn't truly be included. The reason they have all those spells is due to the fact they are the Enfeebler... SCH is a battle tactician who learned to use the elements to their advantage despite not being a true mage. Giving them the spells you've said will make them RDM 2.0 without the melee ability. It's 100% not the way SCH should go, it also negates every single jobs benefit as subjob.

They should go down the line off maximising SCH as a unique job, RDM was supposed to be the middle between BLM WHM and WAR, so RDM should be improved in that way. SCH just shouldn't.

Why the hell shouldn't merits be counted? Because they're merits they don't exist? That's ridiculous. Even then, Saboteur pretty much makes Red Mage a better enfeebler regardless, or do Job Abilities not count because the Red Mage might not have reached the level to use it?
I'll repeat it again, but giving Scholar basic spells that aren't even Red Mage specific doesn't mean it can't have its own unique role. If they gave Scholar t1 enfeebles it's not going to become an enfeebler and nothing else, it will remain exactly as what it is now. Unless you care to explain how giving spells that we already have via subjob would change a thing. It's not a matter of overpowering the job, it's just a matter of completion. There is no reason for Scholar not to have such basic spells.

[Darkwizardzin]

As far as I know no one has asked for Elemental Celerity

Look at the very first post on this thread.
also you missed my whole point: sch has everything it needs to do it's job and do it well (well almost everything). To say it needs all the "basic" spells that it doesn't have is pretty petty.

Can a sch nuke well: yes
Can a sch enhance well: hell yes
Can a sch enfebble well: yes
Can a sch heal well: no but only because its lacking 1 spell (cure 5)

So the only thing sch has problems with is healing (which im sure will be fixed in the next level cap) and sometimes hate management. (which only bad sch have problems with)

Your asking for sch to get spells it not only doesn't need but is giving even more power to an already powerful job.

Considering the fact that other jobs balance wise are not doing very well (im looking at you Pup,pld and to a lesser extent any dd job that isn't war, mnk, nin) you should be thankful of where the sch job is right now.