[dev1010] Ranged update details

[Atomic_Skull]

You guys realize that if they replaced the ranged damage formula with the same one used for melee rangers would do even less damage right?

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Le...#Ranged_Attack

[Wheels]

I honestly feel the only way that I have been able to overcome my enmity issues as a Ranger is by using Coronach constantly. It is sad that the only decent way not to pull massive hate on ranger over time is to have a relic gun. I feel that it would be nice if SE fixed enmity issues for ranger but then the utility of my weapon would go down considerably.

I have a huge enmity issue even with coronach, i pull hate regardless and i won't use any other ja like barrage just coronach and end up with hate. The PLD has been doing his job for 8+ years so i know he is doing all he can, it's just with the lvl 90 introduced the enmity was not balanced right imo.

[Catsby]

You guys realize that if they replaced the ranged damage formula with the same one used for melee rangers would do even less damage right?

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Le...#Ranged_Attack

Currently it wouldn't make a difference. The amount of ranged attack gear/abilities/enhancements we have access to is pathetic, our STR is pathetic and our ammo/weapon selection is pathetic.

[Fyreus]

I doubt se would make super jump-like abilities for rng (although i wonder why post penta spam drg really NEEDS it or utilizes it in a party) because they like to see us die lol. super jump would be the best ja we could give with no issues like a sub job crying that they are somewhat useless like ye old' sam and war. what i would consider an enmity fix is to allow us to ws with camouflage ON and a fixed duration with the appropriate af body boost.

iit's a 5min ability and -25 enmity so atleast allow us to keep it on...

[noodles355]

Adding means like camoflage that purely slow the rate of enmity gain will never be a real fix to ranger's enmity problem for the simple reason that hate caps. If you had fulltime camoflage, all it means is hate would cap slower and that doesn't really fix the problem.

[Kerfuffle]

Well its easier not to pull hate when you still use silver bullets lol. I gave up constantly hounding friends to make me the new ones or to sit in pt while I made them. And I have the gil but not paying 60k/stk for drkadaman for anything but ws and barrage. Still coronach saves my ass a lot....

[Mirabelle]

Adding means like camoflage that purely slow the rate of enmity gain will never be a real fix to ranger's enmity problem for the simple reason that hate caps. If you had fulltime camoflage, all it means is hate would cap slower and that doesn't really fix the problem.

What really would be nice is an enmity decay job trait. Dropping a specified amount of hate per tic potentially merit able or improved with gear. That would be better than less enmity per shot.

[Fyreus]

Maybe allowing stealth shot to stay up for 30 secs would be nice too. The reason i suggest things that slow down hate is because i doubt they will give us a shed ability sice they nerfed /hide */pissed* and left /drg untouched for hate shed abilities. They obviously won't fix ranged attack enmity but SE showed that they will take steps to slow it down gradually.

From a design POV everyone in range of a mob has signed an agreement that they will get aoe'd and mages out of aoe (i consider rng an arrow mage lol) know they have to hold out to keep the mob from running to the back which is something you have to balance as a party. Since we have to accept the mage pov we also have to accept the damage vs. enmity limitations they also have as well. The best thing se can do knowing this and keeping in mind the arrowfest of earlier times is to give rng equivalents that whm gets and blm gets in form of enmity management.

This is why i personally feel an active ja fix to camouflage and stealth shot would be the most feasible at least from a party position stand point. I'd love hide/super high jump/enmity douse but mana is ones limitation in many cases, taking plague/drain/paralyze/spikes/sleep/etc ruins melee potential, where as we as rng have no real penalties except enmity and ws distance.

[Feliciaa]

Problem is you can't really look at Ranged attacks the same way you look at melee or magic based attacks. Ranged attacks are more of a hybrid of the two. Mainly because we are constantly attacking like melee but from a distance like blm and we are not just relying on a high dmg spell every few seconds to balance our dmg/enmity.

The thing is we are designed to do damage from a distance however, because of the fact I mentioned above we end up pulling hate even while holding back because of how enmity works in this game.

As Noodles355 said:
Adding means like camouflage that purely slow the rate of enmity gain will never be a real fix to ranger's enmity problem for the simple reason that hate caps. If you had full time camouflage, all it means is hate would cap slower and that doesn't really fix the problem.

The job doesn't need more tools to slow enmity gain down. We need a true fix that deals with enmity once it is capped so we can continue to do our job and not burden every other class in the PT.

[noodles355]

What really would be nice is an enmity decay job trait. Dropping a specified amount of hate per tic potentially merit able or improved with gear. That would be better than less enmity per shot.

Yeah, this is a nice idea. To be honest, so is every idea that gives a rng a means to lower it's enmity.

Also I'm sorry Fyreus, your argument appears to be "we get to DD out of AoE range". Yeah, great, except you still need to run into 15"ish to fire your WS unless you're using detonator/empy arrow. And Most dangerous difficult mobe where you'd want RNG have AoEs that span either 15" or 20" (more often than not, 20")

Feliciaa pretty much nailed it. The idea of an outside-aoe DD is a nice idea but it doesn't work because the enmity system has not been changed. The enmity system was maybe sensible for like 6-8 years ago, but with the lvl cap increase, new gear, new abils/traits, and the epic destruction that is atma, the hate cap hasn't changed. It's far tooe asy to cap hate on any DD on a monster. RNG included.