Direct Damage

[InfamousDS]

A cursory glance of the first page revealed this topic either doesn't exist or was buried.

I'm a professional dancer, most of my gear is pretty good and I'm good in all the places dancer was meant to fit. I can support heal, no issues. I'm a pretty good evasion tank, whenever my DDs don't overdo it. I always debuff in parties, based on what we need. But one thing I can't do is compete as a DD. Sure, Abyssea made it easier with Razed Ruins, Voracious Violet, and Apocalypse Atmas but THFs can get it too (just to use another mainly dagger job). In short, Atmas aren't specific enough and restriction to Abyssea doesn't help.

What we as a job need are TP-based direct damage abilities. I have thought of 3 ways to implement this:

Steps II:
Chilling Step:Deals ice elemental damage and inflicts "Frozen Daze", reducing targets resistance to wind elemental damage.;Cost:20TP;Effects:-20 resistance first step, -10 on subsequent steps.
Burning Step:Deals fire elemental damage and inflicts "Heated Daze", reducing targets resistance to ice elemental damage.;Cost:20TP;Effects:-20 resistance first step, -10 on subsequent steps.
Light Step:Deals wind elemental damage and inflicts "Choked Daze", reducing targets resistance to earth elemental damage.;Cost:20TP;Effects:-20 resistance first step, -10 on subsequent steps.
Heavy Step:Deals earth elemental damage and inflicts "Dusty Daze", reducing targets resistance to thunder elemental damage.;Cost:20TP;Effects:-20 resistance first step, -10 on subsequent steps.
Shocked Step:Deals thunder elemental damage and inflicts "Zapped Daze", reducing targets resistance to water elemental damage.;Cost:20TP;Effects:-20 resistance first step, -10 on subsequent steps.
Soaked Step:Deals water elemental damage and inflicts "Wet Daze", reducing targets resistance to fire elemental damage.;Cost:20TP;Effects:-20 resistance first step, -10 on subsequent steps.
Holy Step:Deals light elemental damage and inflicts "Bright Daze", reducing targets resistance to darkness elemental damage.;Cost:20TP;Effects:-20 resistance first step, -10 on subsequent steps.
Shadow Step:Deals darkness elemental damage and inflicts "Darkened Daze", reducing targets resistance to light elemental damage.;Cost:20TP;Effects:-20 resistance first step, -10 on subsequent steps.

OR:

Diseased Step:Deals darkness elemental damage and inflicts "Sickened Daze", reducing targets attack and dealing damage over time.;Cost:15TP;Effects:-10 attack and 3 damage/tic, -5 attack and +1 damage per subsequent step.
Magical Step:Deals light elemental damage and inflicts "Powerless Daze", reducing targets defense and dealing damage over time.;Cost:15TP;Effects:-10 defense and 1 damage/tic, -5 defense and +1 damage per subsequent step.

Sambas II:
Similar to the steps minus the Bio and Dia alternatives. Also remove resistance down and increase TP cost proportionally, while reducing damage per hit to be delay-related like Drain and Aspir.

Stomps:
These deal pure direct damage, unrelated to the typical daze system present with all dancer abilities outside waltz and finishing moves. In fact, they are an antithesis to Waltz. These dances originate in some forms of modern hip-hop, but the Vana'Diel origin can be whatever the developers decide. Like Waltz, they can be CHR-based while the defender's MND stat protects them (like Cure is MND -> VIT and Waltz is CHR -> VIT). Also like standard "nukes", they can have direct relations to Magic Accuracy (making m.acc daggers worthwhile) and Magic Attack (allowing Dancer to be more versatile on monsters with high melee resistance).


Naturally, these can be tiered and Waltz can be implemented to deal damage to Undead. I didn't give base levels because I want the devs to think on what they have already planned and see if it can be implemented within the current road map. Thanks in advance, if it is done! Oh, and thoughts fellow dancers?

[Alkalinehoe]

DNCs as DDs are pretty phenomenal in Abyssea... They can still tank like thf without losing potent JAs (Sneak/Trick Attack) and being able to crit Rudra's without having to be behind the mob.

Edit: TBH, nothing in your post seems relevant to DNC. Looks like a cheap COR v2 knockoff. DNCs already have quite a bit of gear they need to cover (MACC, Step ACC, Evasion, Waltz, DD, -DT, etc) and I would rather not add MAB gear to the list (seeing as that's what would likely increase your ele steps damage).

I would definitely like some some more DDing traits/abilities to help transition us to outside Abyssea, but DNC as it is now is pretty powerful.

[Kasandaro]

Steps II:
{snip elemental steps}

Could work - how would you factor the damage? Dagger, modded by CHA? (There are times I really wish we had a Dance Skill.) And two tiers of Steps - I have enough problems dumping Flourishes as is.

Diseased/Magical Step:

Bio and Dia? Stepping on too many toes, that.

Sambas II:
Similar to the steps minus the Bio and Dia alternatives. Also remove resistance down and increase TP cost proportionally, while reducing damage per hit to be delay-related like Drain and Aspir.

Still wouldn't trump Haste Samba (especially a merited Haste Samba) on anything outside elementals. Unless you had a situation with 0DMG daggers and went for an enspell-style kill.

Stomps:

Interesting idea. I like this. But I'd want to keep it melee range. Not wild about having to find macc/matt (do you realise how little we get), and switching daggers is an awful idea. Though, concern - how would you balance the damage on, say, Stomp III to make using it twice equivalent to using a weaponskill? (spitballing tp costs based on waltz costs)

Naturally, these can be tiered and Waltz can be implemented to deal damage to Undead.

Ugh. Not sure I like that at all. I like the idea of having mobs we're just not good against.

[Shibayama]

How about when you get a step to level 5, you get some sort of buff for the party/the monster gets an additional debuff in addittion to the status down they normally get?

For example, an ATT buff for box step level 5, an accuracy buff for Quickstep, a Magic Attack Bonus buff for Stutter Step and a Crit Damage buff for Feather Step?

Steps have always been quite abit of work to get to level 5 and maintain, even with presto, especially since there are afew jobs that have debuffs of similar potency for only 1 cast.

[Alkalinehoe]

How about when you get a step to level 5, you get some sort of buff for the party/the monster gets an additional debuff in addittion to the status down they normally get?

For example, an ATT buff for box step level 5, an accuracy buff for Quickstep, a Magic Attack Bonus buff for Stutter Step and a Crit Damage buff for Feather Step?

Steps have always been quite abit of work to get to level 5 and maintain, even with presto, especially since there are afew jobs that have debuffs of similar potency for only 1 cast.

IDK is an ACC/Crit/MAB buff really gonna stop you from using Reverse Flourish for 100tp?

[Shibayama]

IDK is an ACC/Crit/MAB buff really gonna stop you from using Reverse Flourish for 100tp?

Not 5 Finishing Moves - a level 5 Daze. Sorry, I should have made that more clear. That way the party would get an added benefit of you keeping up the level 5 daze while also giving you more attack potential with max box/feather.

[Alkalinehoe]

Not 5 Finishing Moves - a level 5 Daze. Sorry, I should have made that more clear. That way the party would get an added benefit of you keeping up the level 5 daze while also giving you more attack potential with max box/feather.

Ah I see what you're saying. I do enjoy the idea of getting a bonus when getting/keeping a level 5 daze.

[Eeek]

To be honest, DDing is not really a problem for properly-geared DNCs in Abyssea. DNCs can hit the hate cap (and stay there) just as easily as any other melee, and DNCs have the tools to take one hell of a beating before dropping dead.

It's fun having the capabilities to change roles on the fly from DDing to healing to tanking to all three at once and back again.

I really hope DNC transitions well from Abyssea to whatever comes next. I do fear, however, that we'll leave our best days behind us in Abyssea. I'm not expecting to play DNC much once it's over.

[InfamousDS]

Been a few days since I started it, and I have one thing to add based on the general opinion. I'm talking about OUTSIDE crazyexpanddamagearea. I've wanted direct damage since the job was first implemented. Yes, the samba idea was mostly for elementals, as farming them can still take a while even on the low-level ones. And I can easily justify 50TP for 400~ damage over a WS for a LOT more if I need TP and I also need to deal damage for a faster kill or to hold hate.

As for the COR thing, no. I can't even see that. COR is by far a better buffer and support DD (without atmas) then DNC could hope to be. DNC buff is restricted to drain, aspir, and 5-10% haste, as direct buffs. And you could argue our debuffs act as buffs, but you can argue that for any debuff =P. If Quick Draw is what you are referring to, it has added debuffs my ideas don't have, as well as increasing potency/duration of other debuffs. My idea actually stems from NIN, as evidenced by the step debuff's reducing the next element. I was thinking damage would be similar to Violent (a standard attack), but with added damage based on CHR. Steps were meant to be weak in my idea on purpose, which seems counter-productive to my argument of more damage potential, but fits the general premise that Steps are more debuff than anything else.

My biggest hope was for Stomps, making us melee nukers. Cure spells can damage Undead, and they added where we can cure anybody, it just seems like the next logical step. I like the thought of spending my TP in more ways then: Step, Samba, check step recast, Step, repeat, Cure when needed, "Oh snap, my party is totally fully healed, I'mma WS!", Reverse Flourish to get it back.

Bio/Dia fit DNC as a debuffer really well, the only toes I can see it stepping on are RDM who 5/5 Bio3 (which is 8/tic, mine is 3/tic with a 1min duration unless constantly applied and it only caps at 7/tic. Plus, I'm pretty sure the reduction is WAY less since Bio is percentage-based).

This can extend to other jobs as well, BLU could benefit from a weak and relatively free TP feed that doesn't eat at their MP. Most jobs would probably like the option of no-MP nukes on a sub when soloing. Link that pet/elemental and need a quick kill without burning 100+TP on a WS? Nuke it, then cure yourself right afterward, then get your TP back fighting the master, if it didn't die you can repeat without putting yourself in legit danger of death. The idea makes Dancer a more viable solo subjob, just like Dual Wield did, and most likely the way SE intended the job to be (like SCH is powerful as a main, but is also a fantastic sub).

While the idea of killing things that are hard might be foreign to most new people, I'm sure all of us can remember a time when an extra DoT woulda won the NM or BC, or you were sitting on 300TP in a party and your best damage was 600 from Dancing Edge. My idea makes the job overall stronger, without overpowering us in the roles we already play. WS damage will always be better of course, but that doesn't stop us from inviting BLM to Abyssea (unless you only invite them for Azure). And, as a caveat, DNC couldn't ever replace BLM as nuker just like they can't replace WHM as healer. These dances wouldn't give lights outside Pearlescent, and wouldn't come close to a well-geared BLM's nukes (as intended, they are supplemental damage after all).

[Eeek]

My only problem with your suggestions is that they shift DNC a little too far into the mage realm. We already have something along the lines of Dia, and the Stomp 'nukes' move DNC too close to BLU's functions and capabilities.

DNC is already a powerful job in the right situations, and I don't think adding more mage-oriented abilities is the way to go. I'd personally love to see SE adjust our healing abilities like separating our universal waltz timer into several waltz timers and reducing the recast on Healing Waltz.