[dev1009] Seriously.... how could you make the HNM system worse...

[Karbuncle]

The way i see it, This is a small improvement over the old way. You may be thinking "Oh, I only have 200 Kindred Seals" but then again, You probably camped the old kings with friends. Sooo... Ask those friends to help with KSNM99.

Say you get 5 friends, You go do 6 KSNM99s, get 6 pops for Fafnir, Kill Fafnir 6 times and (if the update is correct about 100% pop upgrade) then kill 6 Nidhoggs. etc etc. or divide them up. the KSNM99's still have a chance to drop Black Belt items as well.

You basically now, with a bit more effort, Have the chance to rapid-spawn multiple of these of these NMs, KSNM99's aren't really that hard, and I'm sure between you and ~3 friends you can probably have a fair share of pops built up. Split up between different NMs.

I Definitely think it could have had more ways to get the pop (I.E, make it drop from Multiple BC/KSNMs like the "Ouryu Orb" from multiple ENMs), but outside of that, I actually think this isn't as terrible as your all making it sound :|

Still, I see where a lot of the trouble is coming from, I think the pop item should have been a little more easily obtained. Perhaps Drop 100% From KSNM99s, and maybe ~25% from KSNM30's, and a few BCNM60+'s. Make it from Multiple locations. Forcing it into only 1 KSNM really does hurt more then help after the first ~month when everyones burned out their Kindred seals...

Edit: Plus the update notes said "At least 1 per fight", Meaning theres a Chance Fafnir/KSNM will drop 1-2 or more of the "Pop items" for their NMs. This is a bigger improvement than most people think :|

[Orson]

That doesn't mean shit... Who has the time to sit and farm KS's off retarded mobs to get people to drag them out to a KS99 to kill for a pop to pop a NQ to pop an HQ to do that all over... At least the time was spanned over HQ/NQ days. People cried about 3hours... congrats spending even more time trying to get a pop for a effing HNM that's going to be 10x more pain in the ass to get an item off of.

If you have 6 people spend randomly 2 hrs farming KSs you'd have a pop approx every 2 hours 45 minutes (this being double the base time because I'd assume you'd get Bst seals too.) Being that's a 100% pop for NQ and HQ I'd say that's not bad at all. Seriously if you have problem with that then you're probably in one of 2 camps. You want everything handed to you on a silver platter or you're a lazy ass botter who enjoyed spending NM windows watching cartoons while waiting for your bot or your LS mates' bot to claim.

[Seyomeyo]

Who wants to spend 8 hours and 15 minutes (based on the speculation of 5 minutes between drops) farming KS (much longer since BS, KC and HKC share that pool) so they can get a group together to do a KSNM so that they can pop a mob they can solo now.

[KigenAngelios]

The way i see it, This is a small improvement over the old way. You may be thinking "Oh, I only have 200 Kindred Seals" but then again, You probably camped the old kings with friends. Sooo... Ask those friends to help with KSNM99.

Say you get 5 friends, You go do 6 KSNM99s, get 6 pops for Fafnir, Kill Fafnir 6 times and (if the update is correct about 100% pop upgrade) then kill 6 Nidhoggs. etc etc. or divide them up. the KSNM99's still have a chance to drop Black Belt items as well.

You basically now, with a bit more effort, Have the chance to rapid-spawn multiple of these of these NMs, KSNM99's aren't really that hard, and I'm sure between you and ~3 friends you can probably have a fair share of pops built up. Split up between different NMs.

I Definitely think it could have had more ways to get the pop (I.E, make it drop from Multiple BC/KSNMs like the "Ouryu Orb" from multiple ENMs), but outside of that, I actually think this isn't as terrible as your all making it sound :|

Still, I see where a lot of the trouble is coming from, I think the pop item should have been a little more easily obtained. Perhaps Drop 100% From KSNM99s, and maybe ~25% from KSNM30's, and a few BCNM60+'s. Make it from Multiple locations. Forcing it into only 1 KSNM really does hurt more then help after the first ~month when everyones burned out their Kindred seals...

While I agree that more options are a great thing it does not solve to problem of seal influx nor the problem of actually having willing friends who aren't dragging their feet about spending their limited KSs, time, etc. In the end this feels like it is taking away more options than it is giving.

[Karbuncle]

While I agree that more options are a great thing it does not solve to problem of seal influx nor the problem of actually having willing friends who aren't dragging their feet about spending their limited KSs, time, etc. In the end this feels like it is taking away more options than it is giving.

I can respect that you're in that situation but... Kindred Seals are basically 95% Worthless. KSNM's don't offer shit for gil anymore, especially compared to other Ventures. (Really the only good ones these days are the ones that drop Raise III...)

Maybe i just have Really good friends, But i know I could get a lot of people to Build pops with/for me. Giving us each a shot at something we want for fun. Maybe a Ridill(TOY!), or Dring, But I don't think I'll have trouble getting help. Though i can feel for people who don't have friends who can help them or want too.

Though, If you can get even 2 friends, You can "abuse" the alliance system, get up to 3 KS/BS/etc per 5 minutes, instead of just 1. tripling your odds.

I know it sounds like shit, But I think in the long run it'll help most people, maybe not everyone, But i know when this update comes around I'll have a better shot at Black belt :\

[Snaplin]

If you have 6 people spend randomly 2 hrs farming KSs you'd have a pop approx every 2 hours 45 minutes (this being double the base time because I'd assume you'd get Bst seals too.) Being that's a 100% pop for NQ and HQ I'd say that's not bad at all. Seriously if you have problem with that then you're probably in one of 2 camps. You want everything handed to you on a silver platter or you're a lazy ass botter who enjoyed spending NM windows watching cartoons while waiting for your bot or your LS mates' bot to claim.

Cool so I can spend 2 hours farming, gather for the NMs kill the KS 99, to pop the NQ to pop the HQ at a "chance" of some lower drop rate shit? On top of LS events and my already mile high "To-do-list" Instead of planning my time around an HNM and get stuff before,after and in between windows. Forgot Since I don't like this spawn BS i'm a botter or just want stuff easy right? Try harder everything is already "easy" all they did was make it more of a pain and time consuming.

[Orson]

Cool so I can spend 2 hours farming, gather for the NMs kill the KS 99, to pop the NQ to pop the HQ at a "chance" of some lower drop rate shit? On top of LS events and my already mile high "To-do-list" Instead of planning my time around an HNM and get stuff before,after and in between windows. Try harder.

I see you're in the second camp. Cry harder now that you can't just sit on your ass waiting for you to luck out on getting gear. Also read the post only BB items drop rate is being reduced.

[Karbuncle]

Did i over-look in the update notes where they said they lowered the drop rate on HNM/King items for this update? people seem to be bringing it up a lot.

Edit: I see that they removed it from NQ HNMs :|
Edit2: Seriously... They lowered the drop rate from Kings? I just looked at it, Thought it said "increased". Which i thought was odd since i thought it was 100%

Fuck that is really dumb.

[Orson]

For all people could know that drop rate might be like 50% off the HQ. That and they aren't removing the BB items from the KS99s unless they aren't mentioning that.

[Snaplin]

I see you're in the second camp. Cry harder now that you can't just sit on your ass waiting for you to luck out on getting gear. Also read the post only BB items drop rate is being reduced.

I don't even camp that but I'm glad you can tell someone bots from a post on a forum cool more posts from the QQbot brigade. There are bots that can farm KS's while you afk so this makes no difference nor changes anything but the fact that you have to run to different zones and fight more then 1 mob and people w/o a BB go through more of a pain to get them, Nice try tho go cry about bots back in 2004 when SE didn't listen & HNMs ment something.