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  1. #11
    Player Beastorizer's Avatar
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    Jun 2019
    Posts
    76
    Character
    Supersummoner
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    SAM Lv 49
    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    Honestly, even if you were DPSing together, the command range nerf still causes a ton of frustration because with larger monsters, you can't (easily) stand on opposite sides of the monster or otherwise far enough apart to avoid AoEs and such hitting both you and the pet. So I'd argue that the change caused undue hassle for all playstyles of BST.

    Besides, the proper way to promote that kind of play would have been to make the rewards more worth the risks, rather than just say "you can't do this anymore because we said so." Besides, neither PUP nor SMN were subjected to this change- it's a special rule just for BST.
    You have your ways of playing, I have mine. I am not going to call your way wrong, because that will be ignorant. The beauty of BST is play-styles; more than one way to skin a cat.

    I always dd alongside my pet. The nerf does not bother me. I dd, get out of the way of tp moves, then return. If anything, the range nerf gives me more charges due to the fact that I have to wait. This is how I play bruh; for 12 years. Not sure what you want from me lol.......
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    6,909
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    The beauty of BST is play-styles; more than one way to skin a cat.
    Well yes, it is. I have Claustrum 119 III on SMN and I have auto attack and WS sets in addition to BP delay and damage sets. I like to think I know more about thinking outside the box than the average. The whole point here is a play style of BST was taken away without any good reason, and not only that, caused frustration for some players who didn't even utilize that play style.
    (0)

  3. #13
    Player Seish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    106
    Character
    Topshelf
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post
    Look, I mean this in a respectful way, but if you were not affected by the distance nerf, you've never played Beastmaster properly (or perhaps, never played Beastmaster against the variety of pets/monsters the game allows for). That's fine, that's your experience or perspective. You don't have to completely change the rules of basketball because one person plays half-court and everyone else plays full-court.



    This. Exactly. 100%....and to add insult to injury (aside from November 2019 update), the Beastmaster job received zero modifications to support being a front-line DD, for enduring a shorter distance for executing Reward or /bstpet abilities. Beastmaster needs the distance nerf fixed, or an overhaul with job traits/combat skills to support being a front-line DD. (For either situation, Reward should be usable at the original pre-nerf distance). Period.
    Bro, I recommend you watch some old school FFXI videos and see how wrong you are. Now, there are many different playstyles to a game, but playin in 2003 myself and even pre abby updates, I ALWAYS saw a BST fight with his pet. Not saying there isn't times, or styles of specific players staying back while the BST did dmg. But I do remember a lot of BSTS having a maneatter and juggy dual wielding. That's been a thing and is as old as Altana herself.
    (1)
    Last edited by Seish; 11-22-2019 at 03:02 PM.

  4. #14
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    6,909
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    FFXI has always been about freedom to do different things and this is about the only time they've directly taken away a playstyle or approach like this. If I can swing Claustrum around and WHMs can hexa strike, why can't a BST play at range?
    (1)

  5. #15
    Player Gwydion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    446
    Character
    Galkashield
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Seish View Post
    Bro, I recommend you watch some old school FFXI videos and see how wrong you are. Now, there are many different playstyles to a game, but playin in 2003 myself and even pre abby updates, I ALWAYS saw a BST fight with his pet. Not saying there isn't times, or styles of specific players staying back while the BST did dmg. But I do remember a lot of BSTS having a maneatter and juggy dual wielding. That's been a thing and is as old as Altana herself.
    Only a handful of people have put more hours/years into Beastmaster than I have, in terms of sheer playability. Please stop defending the distance nerf restriction. You're also conflating the idea of "fighting with your pet" with what SE is calling Beastmaster, a "front-line DD". These are NOT the same thing. Beastmaster has no abilities or traits to support front-line DD ....and cannot even reliably execute the job abilities they currently have. If a player cannot consistently or reliably use Reward or Fight because of the size of the pet, the player or the monster, then something is fundamentally broken. Beastmaster cannot even control the positioning of it's pet to stay within the 7-yalm restriction. Nothing about the Beastmaster job supports this style of play and November's "job adjustment for Beasmaster" is like being given your own shirt back as a Christmas present.

    I'm so tired of reiterating the same points about what is fundamentally broken with Beastmaster and how this "front-line DD" position is NOT even fully supported or re-inforced by SE. Playing Beastmaster today, is like playing with a broken controller. I'm tired of saying this and the sheer number of Likes on the first post of the November digest thread is proof. When has any content on these forums received 30+ likes in the last 5 years of this game? I think Beastmaster players feel strongly about the state of their favorite job.

    It's time for SE to respond and revert the distance nerf (a-la White Mage update rollback) so Beastmaster can fight both close and further back consistently ....or make Beastmaster a front-line DD, with the job traits, abilities and job gifts that go along with it.
    (0)

  6. #16
    Player Beastorizer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    76
    Character
    Supersummoner
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    SAM Lv 49
    Pretty much what Seish said.

    Also, we all put many hours into BST. When I played, jugs were only emergency pets when the wild one faints. & we actually had to macro monster signas & light-staffs for charm, then switch to axes lol. DDing with the pet was crucial, to speed up chains & avoid your pet fainting.

    We get it, you played a lot of BST, as we all have. Why are you angry with everyone? We are all in the same boat here.

    I already stated, even though I am a close combat BST, I feel for those who were not, because SE duped them for no reason. Sometimes, maybe I want to use ready as I approach a boss.......You on the other-hand Gwy, blast anyone whom opinions differ from your own. All I was saying is, I play close range, that is it man. What do you want for me lol?

    You play your way, that is fine. SE should change it back

    I play my way, have since RoZ was the sole expansion.
    (1)

  7. #17
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    6,909
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    I mean they could increase the range by just a couple yalms and that would reduce the amount of frustration from not having to move so constantly to avoid things and move back to use pet commands. increasing it from like 5y to 8 or 10 isn't going to allow the master to sit in a completely safe place out of range, because most AoE attacks are bigger than that.
    (1)

  8. #18
    Player Seish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    106
    Character
    Topshelf
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    What he said^^^^:

    EDIT:
    The guy saying bsts should stay back though isn't incorrect about it being a playstyle--as we all are aware. Some bsts used the light staff and the JSE to charm. And rather than /nin, they would /whm or even /brd for the CHR. But while I saw that and I think it's valid, I did see more /nins because the dual wield effect gave back mad TP. Top that off with a maneatter and juggy, you get a powerhouse from the TP, the dmg from the bst, and the pets dmg.

    But if SE is nerfing something, they usually do it with changing the playstyle of the game. Kind of what they did when nin started to tank--how they nerfed the shield nulling dmg for example. I wish they would give us a roadmap though the direction they plan to take the game and reopen the test servers so we can see what they are thinking and provide feedback.
    (0)
    Last edited by Seish; 11-24-2019 at 03:10 AM.

  9. #19
    Player Gwydion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    446
    Character
    Galkashield
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Seish View Post
    What he said^^^^:

    EDIT:
    The guy saying bsts should stay back though isn't incorrect about it being a playstyle--as we all are aware. Some bsts used the light staff and the JSE to charm. And rather than /nin, they would /whm or even /brd for the CHR. But while I saw that and I think it's valid, I did see more /nins because the dual wield effect gave back mad TP. Top that off with a maneatter and juggy, you get a powerhouse from the TP, the dmg from the bst, and the pets dmg.

    But if SE is nerfing something, they usually do it with changing the playstyle of the game. Kind of what they did when nin started to tank--how they nerfed the shield nulling dmg for example. I wish they would give us a roadmap though the direction they plan to take the game and reopen the test servers so we can see what they are thinking and provide feedback.
    You can name-drop any items you want with respect to Beastmaster, it doesn't mean you understand the mechanics of the job or what's currently wrong with the Beastmaster job. You named items that don't even enhance the pet's stats, but somehow it's "a powerhouse...for the pets dmg". Really? If you re-read what you wrote, do you honestly believe your own argument? Just to re-iterate: You effectively posted "word/item salad". Thank you for your contribution. I'm grateful to have conversations with other Beastmasters in a 17-year old game, in 2019, but your feedback is neither constructive, actionable or based on any factual merit.

    For the 1,000th time: This is not a "fighting with pet" or "BSTs should stay back" issue. SE made this the focal point with their 7-yalm restriction and it's blind-siding the player base from the real issue.

    The focal point of the Beastmaster conversation is that the mechanics imposed upon us for the Beastmaster job, are applied inconsistently in their current form. Period. End of story.

    To make matters worse, you cannot execute Ready/Fight consistently depending on the size of your character, pet or enemy. You have no armor, gear, job abilities, traits or gifts to re-inforce their assertion that we must play as "front-line DDs". Beastmaster has nothing to compensate being forced into a 7-yalm restriction. If you're lucky enough to have 5/5 Lilith Armor, you can survive a bit longer....Great.....but you sacrifice pet stats when doing so. Let's not forget that only CORs can buff pets, not trusts, Geomancer bubbles, Bard songs OR ANY ARMOR SET BONUSES.

    The job abilities Charm/Gauge/Tame are effectively useless in I-Level content. Beastmaster's shield skill caps at 300 and has no native dual wield. To maximize our Pet's DPS we have to use a non-ILVL axe and must set our TP to zero every 10 seconds. I guarantee this is purely by accident as SE couldn't have foreseen this situation when the Beastmaster distance nerf was introduced. We need an I-Level item with Ready recast -5, perhaps on a Beastmaster REMA and not Abyssea's weak weapons.

    Come on my dude...Open your eyes. Bring a Beastmaster to Dynamis Divergence and see how your Pet behaves when a Statue stomps on everyone, you won't get Fight or Ready or Reward to activate to save your life. When your pet chances direction, you won't even be able to run to your pet, satisfy the 7-yalm timer to get one of those abilities to land.

    Edit: I want to point out that you are entitled to your opinion and I appreciate your taking the time to share it, but I strongly believe that there is nothing bout the Beastmaster job TODAY that provides a sustainable play style (regardless of distance, pet size, where-ever you choose to stand, whatever subjob you choose, etc etc). IT. IS. BROKEN.....and being given the same pets as job adjustment is like "being given your own shirt back as a birthday present" ....Come on now.
    (0)
    Last edited by Gwydion; 11-24-2019 at 11:34 AM.

  10. #20
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    6,909
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    I don't think you realize you're really all on the same side lol.

    I get that SE will probably never revert this change entirely like some people want. However, it can be adjusted such that they can follow their vision for BST whilst not making it an exercise in frustration (and in some cases, futility).

    As far as Charm etc., I don't think they want it to be useful past 75- in endgame content, having mobs susceptible to charm is gamebreakingly powerful, which is why charm almost without exception never works in battlefields (there are a couple where it can be used and is the key to clearing, but that's it)

    The other issues like gear options, traits etc, also need to be looked at if they want to keep BST on this path, but I think the crux of the situation is the method they employed to put BST on its current path is very artificial and arbitrary, not to mention incomplete. If they intend to keep it this way, they need to do things that facilitate the strategy they want BST players to use. New pets don't really contribute much to that, that's for sure.
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