Fraudulent & Mischievous Bazaars

[Sirmarki]

While Runje is the one that creates HP-Bayld, Geosuke is the one you give them to for Ergons.

Yeh I know that, I was trading HP-Bayld for the last stage of Idris.

I thought you meant the player I'm indicating in the screenshot takes your bayld if you accidentally trade it to them.

EDIT: Ahh. You were replying to Alhanelem originally?

(one thing that strikes me odd about the pic above is that usually these characters are stationed near the NPC that takes those items, not the NPC that creates them)

[Seriha]

Yeah, I'll pass on the victim blaming for what is obviously scam behavior. No, it's not new. No, a confirmation prompt isn't enough.


Probably the only real way to get around it is to create a completely new item tab to hold items bought/sold via bazaars for 24 hours. Any gil gained in these sales is also held within the tab until the buyer decides to move them into their primary inventory or the 24 hours pass. Bought items in this special window will also show the unit cost and total paid for the transaction, to further emphasize how buying a fake-stack cost them. The last 10 items bought will also be kept in your history so you can have a small comparison window.


Though, I would much rather have a modernized AH so we could just get rid of bazaaring altogether and let people sell whatever at varying stacks/costs while also seeing who the seller is.

[Pixela]

FFXI is a living breathing world, in the world there are scammers and crooks. Heroes and villains.

Utopias are boring, don't try sanitize everything.

[Fatty]

The intention is what counts here. Deliberately trying to scam other players is a bannable offense in my book. But by the game's "laws," any item can be priced anything, and hence mechanically it's not wrong. But as I said, the intention here is what counts.

Confirmation dialogs are not enough. (How many times did you stop and consciously consider the price of an item before putting it up on AH on the confirmation dialog?)

I agree with Seriha, a buy back period is what is needed here. Maybe not as long as 24h. And it should not be tied to the player's own bazaar. Because some people will try to log off and hide their bazaars after a purchase (I wouldn't be surprised if they even try to automate this somehow). It should be controlled solely from the buyer's side. So if you "regret" your purchase, you can return the items and get your gil back automatically with a simple command, without interacting with the seller or their bazaar.

The same should apply to AH as well. There are people who often buy the wrong item (stack vs single), a mistake on their part. Or add an extra digit (or more) due to a keyboard/gamepad slide and they don't realize it until after they confirm the purchase. They should not be punished for making such mistakes. You should be able to undo it within a reasonable time limit.

[Sirmarki]

Probably the only real way to get around it is to create a completely new item tab to hold items bought/sold via bazaars for 24 hours. Any gil gained in these sales is also held within the tab until the buyer decides to move them into their primary inventory or the 24 hours pass. Bought items in this special window will also show the unit cost and total paid for the transaction, to further emphasize how buying a fake-stack cost them. The last 10 items bought will also be kept in your history so you can have a small comparison window.

Then (once again) genuine players suffer. All non 'scammers' will have to wait 24 hours to get the gil they may need sooner than that. One of the things about a bazaar is to offload bulky/stack items all at once and avoid the AH limitation.
I can also imagine it being a coding headache on SE's part.

Changing the code for probably 1% of the populations ill gotten gains is just not viable at this stage.

The absolute priority at this stage is sorting out bots and cheaters running scripts. Genuine players are quiting because of it.

[Alhanelem]

I don't think we need waiting periods, I think we need rules that discourage scam artistry to be enforced. Scamming is in fact against the rules.

The one thing they could do which probably isnt realistic to implement is to make the OK button in confirmation boxes require that you hold down the confirm button for a few seconds/n which may give people's eyes enough time to realize they made a mistake. FFXIV does this for a number of things that are often undesirable for the player but which sometimes you might actually do- declining a raise, and choosing to Return while KO'd, and certain other important decisions. you have to hold the button down for 2 seconds to press the potentially undesirable command. I think other things like demolishing a house also use it.

[TehBeast]

Probably the only real way to get around it is to create a completely new item tab to hold items bought/sold via bazaars for 24 hours. Any gil gained in these sales is also held within the tab until the buyer decides to move them into their primary inventory or the 24 hours pass. Bought items in this special window will also show the unit cost and total paid for the transaction, to further emphasize how buying a fake-stack cost them. The last 10 items bought will also be kept in your history so you can have a small comparison window.

How does it work when I accidentally sell a stack of, for example, Silverpieces for the price of Bronzepieces? Can I undo the sale within those 24 hours?

[Seriha]

Then (once again) genuine players suffer. All non 'scammers' will have to wait 24 hours to get the gil they may need sooner than that. One of the things about a bazaar is to offload bulky/stack items all at once and avoid the AH limitation.
I can also imagine it being a coding headache on SE's part.

Changing the code for probably 1% of the populations ill gotten gains is just not viable at this stage.

The absolute priority at this stage is sorting out bots and cheaters running scripts. Genuine players are quiting because of it.

It's only detrimental to legit sellers if the buyer lets it sit in their temporary inventory. I'd even be okay shortening the window to as low as 4 hours. Assuming any and all sales are on the up, you'd have your funds shortly after as they retrieve them to use/add to their existing stock. Your implied immediate need for cash is otherwise equal to their implied immediate need for the item(s) sold. If you can't tolerate this sort of safety net, then the AH still exists as a more immediate third-party broker. Which, as per my initial post on the topic, justifiably needs an overhaul of its own to negate the need of bazaars entirely.

How does it work when I accidentally sell a stack of, for example, Silverpieces for the price of Bronzepieces? Can I undo the sale within those 24 hours?

I'd say there's a fundamental difference in accidentally giving someone a good deal as opposed to intentionally ripping someone off. Otherwise, the system is intended as buyer protection, not seller. And to address another poster's point, the seller couldn't "save themselves" by logging out, either. Conceptually, there's less pressure behind setting up a bazaar as opposed to shopping from one. Presuming a player does spot a good deal, or their belief of one, you can never be certain someone else won't swoop in and buy it before you confirm. I imagine this has played into a good number of mis-buys over time. I'd also posit you'd have better luck negotiating with someone in this instance than a scammer, assuming you haven't AFK'd your log into obscurity. You probably won't get your items back, or full value, but you can't approach this thinking they bought from you maliciously, either.