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  1. #71
    Player Seriha's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    981
    Character
    Kalsena
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Merc'ing existed before all this recent stuff. Hell, the Salvage bans were pretty much predicated on holier than thou people doing it back in the day while exploiting the loot system. It also existed in other forms like Hakutaku fights, ODS KSBCs, Dynamis clears, and more. It's also rather disingenuous to assert that people taking advantage of this lacked friends or social connections, when I could easily suggest they all couldn't play at the same time, had incompatible job combos for whatever particular event, were in different phases of progression, and so on. There's no hard and fast rule that states anyone that shares in suffering through some event winds up a buddy, either. For every good player we may have met, there were countless others we actively forgot due to mediocrity or intentional dislike. As is the common risk with group content, however, the more bodies you require, the more difficult you make it for people without an active, organized group of their own. And that's before factoring in things like job discrimination in focus, where you might not have had people really interested in farming Shen for Reverend Mails for WHMs, but if it was something they could've personally benefited from? Different tune. Lord knows I had to endure the "Just solo it!" mentality on RDM whenever I'd ask for help to make things go more quickly and safely.


    So, yeah, let's not pretend everyone is suddenly socially inept and that this is really just MMO equivalent generational "Get off my lawn!"-ism. People hate wasting time. That wasn't new then, and certainly not now. Unfortunately, to counter the merc game, players actually need better tools at their disposal to hook them up with like-minded players across the multiple servers. A few shouts now and then probably won't cut it. People in more established groups are also less likely to take in a random newbie to be nice. No, they're going to want equally geared/skilled or better players to make their own profitability rise for the activities they want to do in their time. Otherwise, you pretty much need those obscene amounts of gil to coax them from their own little circles. The harder the content and rarer the drops, the worse it gets.


    That said, RMT never is, was, or will be beneficial to the game, as there is a high probability that anyone who did partake were simply lining the coffers of those that created the financial problems to begin with. Would we have never had sushi on the AH without them? Maybe not as cheap, but you also had make fishing a profitable activity legit players would actually want to do. Same for shihei or whatever else basically boiled down to mundane, repetitive actions in order to produce. Bonus points if they could cheat to do it like bot or position hack. The actual complexity of the task was very rarely a concern with those in mind, too. Sure, we maybe had a laugh about how long it took RMTs to kill Kirin or something, but they were still doing it. And keeping us from doing it at the same time. To otherwise imply it's impossible to handle them comes off more as a lack of willingness to try. And it's not just about reacting. It's also about creating environments where they can't thrive. And as long as things like RMEAs exist in XI as a pinnacle, RMT will always have a calling. I'd say SE dropped the ball here by not phasing them out with Adoulin's launch.
    (0)

  2. #72
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
    Posts
    855
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    You're right, they can express their opinion and I can express mine and disagree with theirs if I want. That's one of the key functions of a forum- discussing issues and presenting opinions. Why do you have a problem with this?
    I agree. However you appear to be borderline attacking them personally in some respects.
    (0)

  3. #73
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
    Posts
    855
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriha View Post
    Merc'ing existed before all this recent stuff.
    Yes it did. Behind the scenes in small numbers. I never saw it once in yell or shout on Fenrir years back.

    Mercing has had a derogatory affect on the game, and it's really starting to show now. It's so widespread that it's literately leaving nothing for people to do who look for pick-up groups.
    People buy stuff, return to town, repeat. They don't have to join/form any party for content, because they can just 'buy it'.

    SE release a brand new challenging battle - merc does it, shouts 'xyx in pool, buy now?' player buys it, no need to join that battle ever again. Removes a person from that content. That person also has no clue on how the battle strategy plays out, they stood there, did nothing, and got the reward. How ridiculous is that!?

    I've been watching yell closely for content shouts on the busiest server over the last three days and there has been virtually nil. The entire yell is mercs and RMT.
    It's also an area linked to a lot of cheating, violations of ToS and links to RMT.
    (1)

  4. #74
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    6,837
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirmarki View Post
    Yes it did. Behind the scenes in small numbers. I never saw it once in yell or shout on Fenrir years back.

    Mercing has had a derogatory affect on the game, and it's really starting to show now. It's so widespread that it's literately leaving nothing for people to do who look for pick-up groups.
    People buy stuff, return to town, repeat. They don't have to join/form any party for content, because they can just 'buy it'.

    SE release a brand new challenging battle - merc does it, shouts 'xyx in pool, buy now?' player buys it, no need to join that battle ever again. Removes a person from that content. That person also has no clue on how the battle strategy plays out, they stood there, did nothing, and got the reward. How ridiculous is that!?

    I've been watching yell closely for content shouts on the busiest server over the last three days and there has been virtually nil. The entire yell is mercs and RMT.
    It's also an area linked to a lot of cheating, violations of ToS and links to RMT.
    It was never "behind the scenes." it happened all the time. Perhaps it's a bit more blatant, but it's nothing new nor was it rare.
    (0)

  5. #75
    Player Seriha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    981
    Character
    Kalsena
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    I'd also posit it seems more obvious between /yell, sites tracking that stuff now, and a general lack of other conversation taking place in between. I'd argue the common, insular nature of linkshell groups has done more damage to the community than people selling off clears/loot. Why help a stranger when you have no guarantee they'll just get theirs and bounce? Or at least hope they're not dead weight? I've also run into people who refuse to help returnees because they'll just be gone again soon. Such are among the reasons why I feel SE made a mistake trying to go back to alliance, or at least larger group content with Voidwatch and eventually Adoulin. No one ever really wanted to trust people they didn't know to do content that likely wasn't fun to begin with, it was just "strongly encouraged" because some buy a bit too much into the MMO hype despite how selfish people tend to be. This is just the eventual result of stagnant content development and otherwise giving no real incentive for people who don't need things to help.
    (0)

  6. #76
    Player Pixela's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    473
    Character
    Lynettta
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriha View Post
    That said, RMT never is, was, or will be beneficial to the game, as there is a high probability that anyone who did partake were simply lining the coffers of those that created the financial problems to begin with. Would we have never had sushi on the AH without them? Maybe not as cheap, but you also had make fishing a profitable activity legit players would actually want to do. Same for shihei or whatever else basically boiled down to mundane, repetitive actions in order to produce. Bonus points if they could cheat to do it like bot or position hack. The actual complexity of the task was very rarely a concern with those in mind, too. Sure, we maybe had a laugh about how long it took RMTs to kill Kirin or something, but they were still doing it. And keeping us from doing it at the same time. To otherwise imply it's impossible to handle them comes off more as a lack of willingness to try. And it's not just about reacting. It's also about creating environments where they can't thrive. And as long as things like RMEAs exist in XI as a pinnacle, RMT will always have a calling. I'd say SE dropped the ball here by not phasing them out with Adoulin's launch.
    Almost all mmorpg companies disagree with you, as I said before they manage RMT instead of banning them because they understand that is the best policy.

    At the end of the day, their customers want to buy gil because many of them have more money than time.
    (0)

  7. #77
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    6,837
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Pixela View Post
    Almost all mmorpg companies disagree with you, as I said before they manage RMT instead of banning them because they understand that is the best policy.

    At the end of the day, their customers want to buy gil because many of them have more money than time.
    All MMORPG companies don't want RMT in their game. Those that choose to "manage" it do so because it's easier and makes them extra money by being RMT themselves (just that money can go back into the game if they want it to). But if anything, game time tokens and the like don't really do anything other than sanction RMT behavior (it just limits how much they can charge)- it still happens, just players have an " official" option that makes them feel like less of a scumbag.
    But if they could eliminate outside RMT, they would, because it isn't good for the game and most honest players revile it.
    (2)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 09-26-2019 at 03:13 AM.

  8. #78
    Player Numquam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    140
    Character
    Paschalis
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    If the RMT aren't annoying anyone except with the shouts then let them be. I'm sure they gotta eat, too. What irks me are are the constant garbage shouts from people that think they are trolls. When the shouts are racist or sexist or promote suicide I log off for the day. Asura shouts just suck.
    (0)

  9. #79
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    855
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Numquam View Post
    If the RMT aren't annoying anyone except with the shouts then let them be. I'm sure they gotta eat, too. What irks me are are the constant garbage shouts from people that think they are trolls. When the shouts are racist or sexist or promote suicide I log off for the day. Asura shouts just suck.
    Which is why we need instant moderation of the yell channel. I have never been to a forum or place of public discussion that doesn't have some form of live moderation.
    Otherwise toxic yells spiral out of control and just escalate further and further making the game toxic. Nip it in the bud so to speak.

    I know exactly where you are coming from. I too have logged off simply due to the mind numbing/offensive/political nonsense that flies down my screen.
    I have no option to block it, my /blist is full, and if I turn /yell off, I'm cutting myself out of the 'possible' (although seemly rare these days) content yells (*cough* everything has been or is being "merced").
    (0)
    Last edited by Sirmarki; 09-26-2019 at 09:13 AM.

  10. #80
    Player TullemoreAsuraFFXI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    192
    Character
    Tullemore
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    Again i will link to a relevant topic on FFXI forums that discusses the current situation with FFXI in-game communications and pollution.

    I left a multitude of logical innovations that SE if they choose to do so can implement. All of which would be beneficial in regards to honest players interacting more with other honest players and avoiding the unwanted spam perpetrated by scoundrels and RMT.

    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...MT-yell-frenzy
    (0)

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