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  1. #1
    Player Beastorizer's Avatar
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    Jun 2019
    Posts
    44
    Character
    Douser
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 39
    I am of the belief that a lot of (Not all) BST issues lie within the jug pets we are given. For example, I am fairly confident a level 119 Elasmoth would last an entire event. I seriously doubt a level 119 Colibri that I can solo within a minute or 2 will lol.......

    BST should start out with simple common pets early on. However, as they level, the pet roster should get significantly stronger. Allow me show you what I mean......I am going to redo a few of our recent pet additions, to what I consider more useful pets.

    Crafty Clyvonne: Would replace with........

    Ready Moves: All

    Turbid Toloi: Would replace with.....

    Ready moves: All, except Ice Guillotine.

    Dapper Mac: Would replace with......

    Ready Moves: All

    Nursery Nazuna: She was great......but Gonna replace her with......

    Ready Moves: All except Great Bleat

    Lucky Lulush: Like Nazuna, another repeat; gonna replace it with....

    Ready Moves: All, and can spawn the Chigoe

    Droopy Dortwin: Replace with..........

    Ready Moves: All (One hr ability also)

    Audacious Anna; Would replace with......

    Ready Moves: All, except Oppressive Gaze.

    Mailbuster Cetas: Gonna replace with.......

    Ready Moves: All, except the obvious lol.....

    Generous Arthur: Would replace with.......

    Ready moves: All but Doomvoid.

    Suspicious Alice: Would replace with........

    Ready moves; All (Yep, boiling blood too).

    Warlike Patrick: Would replace with.....

    Ready moves: All, but Debilitating Spout


    Surging Storm: Would replace with....

    Ready Moves: All (Includes a one-hr ability)

    Blackbeard Randy: Would replace with......

    Ready moves: All, including Cross Thrash (& 1hr ability).

    Threestar Lynn: Would replace with........

    Ready Moves: All

    Brave Hero Glenn: Would replace with.......

    ready moves: All

    Rhyming Shizuna: replace with........

    Ready moves; All (Plus 1 hr ability)

    Are there any pets you feel like should be replaced, or we should have had by now? Imo, a few of these could easily solve the durability pet vs master dilemma.
    (3)
    Last edited by Beastorizer; 07-02-2019 at 02:06 PM.

  2. #2
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    855
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Most of these pets would be too large and un-practical.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player Beastorizer's Avatar
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    Jun 2019
    Posts
    44
    Character
    Douser
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 39
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirmarki View Post
    Most of these pets would be too large and un-practical.
    Like WoW, FFXI scaled down the huge pets like Raphie, so size is a non-factor. Unpractical, I agree. It is not realistic, although it should be. WoW did a great job on their pets. If you see it, you can tame it. The most powerful pets are off limits in FFXI, this is kind of were BST issue lie.

    You are only as strong as your pet.

    In the past, they did everything. New abilities, accuracy and attack boosts, changed Sic to Ready, etc........ every adjustment, but the easy one.....

    Just give BST stronger pets that are cannon.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,525
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Because of the way they implemented ilvl jug pets, there's really zero incentive or benefit to adding any jugs that are not able to reach lv119. :/

    WoW is not really the best example of how to handle pet jobs since they've been homogenized and neutered several times over the years. Unless it's changed recently, nearly all pets all used the same exact move sets and were little more than varied skins. The resizing thing was also buggy last time I played a few years ago.. I had a super rare trick-tamed maggot pet that Bestial Wrath made roughly the size of a bus that my guild banned me from using during raids for example. XD
    (0)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  5. #5
    Player Beastorizer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    44
    Character
    Douser
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 39
    Hm, I don't think so. Pending the species, WoW pet abilities vary. Many have basic attacks like bite.

    I agree, adding jugs whom cannot reach lvl 119 makes zero sense. I suppose they want to keep BST Affinity relevant? Uncapped would have made more sense.

    BST is an extension of their pets, just as other jobs are an extension of their abilities or magic. If you give a mage crappy spells, odds are the job would be somewhat crappy (Not to say BST is crappy...). If you give a DD crappy abilities, odds are, the dd would be crappy.

    BST does not have much in the way of native abilities to boost the master's damage; in a way, BST abilities or magic are the pets. I would love to ask a dev if this Rabbit, Crab, Sheep, Mandy, Fly, and even Tiger cycle can cease for one update. This cycle has been going on far too long.

    I just feel like zero thought goes into BST jugs. They are lazily done imo. The amount of overlapping pets is crazy. Why do we need like 4 or 5 rabbits, 3+ Lizards, 3+ mandies, etc?

    The devs tried everything. How about pygmy pets? Behemoth, Amphiptere, Wivre, etc. I am fairly confident BST would be in a much better place with pygmy versions of the most powerful & durable creatures. They never tried this, but they did try everything but this.

    Durable/dd pet=Durable/capable dd BST
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
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    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,525
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Jug pet stats are all preset and seem to only use a handful of templates for stuff like HP and attack, then job traits are applied on top, then family mods on top of that (which are typically defense oriented like tulfaire having a resistance to the slashing damage type.)

    Even if they were to give us super epic new pet families, I don't see them deviating from this sort of pattern, so we'll end up with just the Ready moves as the primary differences compared to what we have available currently. Given the system limitations on how our pets mechanically works, there'd be no real difference between using a Tiger vs a Ceutzhi.. and no, there is reasonable method for giving us pets that have their own 1hrs to set them apart. XD
    I would go as far as to expect that stats between the two would be quite literally identical and functionally no more than a new skin. There is already a huge variety of jugs in the game as is, and adding new ones that serve no real, impactful purpose seems like a lot of wasted effort/time to me, compared to simply de-obsoleting all of our existing ones.

    Rather than adding more jugs, it would do us a lot more good if they were willing to do what needs to be done, and give us a genuine overhaul, including how jug pets work. It would make a lot more sense to simply ignore/remove jug level limits for an ilvl player, so that any jug gives us a pet that is equal level to the player. TBH, I would greatly prefer that our pet ilvl system was converted from mainhand weapon ilvl > a new ammo/ranged slot item like PUP/SMN first, then remove the jug level caps as a second priority, then thirdly add new jugs if there's enough time left in the schedule to spare on something that low-impact.
    (1)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  7. #7
    Player Beastorizer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
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    44
    Character
    Douser
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 39
    I hear you, there are some good points. However, I ask......

    Do ppl use Brave Hero Glenn? Why not? Because not all pets are created equal.

    I still hold firm that overhauls are not the answer. Why? We have seen this movie before, many times.....Sic > Ready, Increase pet stats, Pet stat food, etc, etc. No realistic overhaul can make Brave Hero Glenn a powerful pet. But...A powerful species does not need an overhaul.

    Overhaul is vague. What are we overhauling? What does it entail? How many of these fixes have we had now? Too many to count..

    Improved jug species? It entails better jug selection (Including moves). Again, overhauls are vague. Better species are not.

    Example of how improve jug selections would surpass any overhaul...

    A Wivre, Granite Skin? He cannot be physically hurt from the front. Along with Boiling Blood? This trumps any overhaul they can realistically give us. BST would be the Physical Tank


    A Peiste? Grim Glower=the Party has a short amount of time to avoid any attacks from a mob. The BST would be an ace.


    We all know a Death Scissor Scorp will blow any jug we currently have away...


    Ruszor would also have utility because he can freeze foes for a short amount of time, = Hydro Wave absorbs water. BST has utility pending the mob.


    Yztarg's normal attacks are very effective. They reduce tp, defense, or stun. It's ready moves are also great.

    They could even keep Beastruction if they make the condition of use for the mob's health to be under 35% instead of the jug pet. So the Yztarg would be the finisher.


    There is so much more usefulness, damage, strategy, and fun to be had with BST. However, it is all held back due to our jug pet selection. No overhaul can ever replace a solid jug selection. BST overhauls have come and gone, but BST still has the same issues players were complaining about during this forum's inception.

    What has not been done? Better jug selections. Here lies the problem.
    (0)
    Last edited by Beastorizer; 07-08-2019 at 02:26 AM.

  8. #8
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,525
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Beastorizer View Post
    Overhaul is vague. What are we overhauling? What does it entail? How many of these fixes have we had now? Too many to count..
    "Overhaul" is not nearly as vague a term as you'd think. In context, it simply means to examine every aspect of the job and then repair damaged areas (like the less-than-melee JA range which is buggy as all get,) and/or improve areas that are lacking (like master meleeing.) Adding new pets to our toolbox, and/or removing the current restrictions on current pets, could be included within that description, but would do absolutely zilch to actually improve the performance of the job itself or bring it in line with how the devs decreed we are supposed to be playing the job.

    As far as I am aware, since the current dev team took over several years ago, there have not been ANY adjustments to BST outside of the Distance Nerf (which was a Very Bad Thing™ and probably one of the biggest overnerfs that I've ever seen in any game,) and the replacement of the Pet: Enmity+ JP category (purely due to the conflict with the Divergence axe.)

    So the answer to your question of "How many of these fixes have we had now?" is a big fat zero.

    What else am I missing in the post-SoA/ilvl era that would qualify as merely an "adjustment", much less an "overhaul"? Referring to the start of the ilvl era as an overhaul does not qualify since that was an all-jobs sort of thing. ^^;;
    (1)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  9. #9
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,525
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Also, I would never want to give up Patrick or Hermes. <,< Between the two, they cover 7/8 skillchain elements, so no replacing either of them. :P
    (0)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  10. #10
    Player Beastorizer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    44
    Character
    Douser
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 39
    I just came back, but I wanna make sure I got this right; BST now has to be closer to use ready moves?

    BST is a not a range dd. It is a melee dd, meant to fight alongside the pet. I recently came back to the game and didn't even notice the ready nerf. Mind you, I was not in any events or anything, but I cook my own pets. I reckon this would be mostly bad for soloing against monsters with AOE. They do not necessarily make or break BST. There was a time when BST could use ready from a mile away, but it was still a flawed job. There was never a time BST had a great jug selection.

    I hear ya'll gripes, but they illustrate what I have been saying......Overhauls come and go. An overhaul can render Patrick "nerfed" but there is no replacing great jug selections. I do not want to rely on vague overhauls. An overhaul can improve, or nerf.

    That is why I say Better Jug selections > Overhauls. The reason this distance thing is such a big deal, is it expose how poor the jug selection really is. Would this distance thing be a huge issue if the damage vastly compensated for it with powerful pets? Doubt it...

    After saying all that, then bring up the lizard implies he is not part of the solution, but merely a casualty of the problem. Pets whom more damaging would replace Patrick in a heartbeat. If Blockhead or Tail blow (Relatively weak moves) can do around 8k, it is safe to say Death Scissors or Crippling blow would quintuple that, being naturally powerful moves. If they would give us a 119 hippo with Hoof-Volley? They would put out equal or higher numbers than a dd.

    Patrick's skill-chains or abilities are obviously not good enough, or make him irreplaceable (I see a lot of ppl using the grasshopper), because BST appears to be in the same position as it was before I left back in 2015. It is like nothing has changed. Devs, how about better pet selection? That is something you never tried.

    As for Patrick, there is replacing him because he is obviously not strong enough to compensate for ready move distance.

    The Ready change is annoying, I do agree there.
    (0)
    Last edited by Beastorizer; 07-11-2019 at 04:46 AM.

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