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  1. #11
    Player Stompa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Remora
    Posts
    633
    Character
    Nebula
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    This is not a policing issue, or an economic issue. This is a moral issue.

    If nobody buys gil, the gilsellers will disappear within a month. They will be left with zero dollars, and a bunch of millionaire mules with Scrambled Names.

    I have never bought gil in fifteen years of playing FFXI daily. My total contribution to gilsellers is $0. This is how you defeat gilsellers.

    Back in 2004, especially among the BST75 community of which I was a proud member, Gilbuyers were considered cheats and cowards, and Gilsellers were considered the lowest form of life.

    Gilsellers were not only loathed because they corrupted the new players and unbalanced the stratified achievement system, but also because they were bad at playing games. Gilsellers famously died all the time and failed hard against easy NMs. They sucked at gaming. It was an endless source of amusement to me and my BST75 pals.

    I might have MPKed gilsellers a lot on my BST, or I might not have done so. You have to talk to my lawyer about that.

    I think it is healthy and morally puissant to look down on gilsellers, to despise them, and to never give them your dollars.

    You are not an elite legendary player if you buy gil, or if you buy progress / gear from mercs. You are an elite legendary player if you earn the gil and earn the progress / gear yourself, or with your adventuring friends.

    This is a philosophical stance, and it used to be the norm. It was normal to feel resentment towards people who cheat, or those who facilitate cheating.

    Ultimately, morals have changed, and that is a Player Side problem.
    (4)

  2. #12
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    853
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Stompa View Post
    This is not a policing issue, or an economic issue. This is a moral issue.
    Morals are non-existent in this day and age.
    (0)

  3. #13
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    853
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Zehira View Post
    Many people like me believe botting is the best way to earn a lot of gil
    *facepalm*
    (1)

  4. #14
    Player Dzspdref's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    231
    Character
    Danallen
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Stompa View Post
    This is not a policing issue, or an economic issue. This is a moral issue.

    I might have MPKed gilsellers a lot on my BST, or I might not have done so. You have to talk to my lawyer about that.

    .
    I MPK'ed hundreds of bots in the lv75 cap days before Goblins patrolled the fishing areas. Let's talk Batallia Downs auto-fishers and RMTs doing the "rusty sword" repair to sell to NPC gil fiasco.
    I would /sh in the area that an NM was (or will be) otw and they'd better move if they are real players. I even did /tells to many of them. Not a single bot moved. Come along the fun NM tree and it "went to town" and killed every single one of them.
    One (or maybe more) of them called a GM on me, and he reviewed my chat log and shouts and tells. I was then "off the fisherman's hook" so to say.
    Taught many others what to do; did this every day for weeks, and so did others, multiple times a day.
    Then one day, all those fishing bots were all gone. Hmmm..... wish I could do the same for sphere-bots.
    (1)

  5. #15
    Player Stompa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Remora
    Posts
    633
    Character
    Nebula
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    On a more current note, I think the GAIN XP Records Of Eminence, should only load once. So you get the Copper Voucher, the sparks and accolades, for the first page, and then it doesn't reload again.

    This is because currently Gain XP affects all the other aspects of FFXI.

    For example, it is the evening time, I'm enjoying my Hot Cocoa, and playing FFXI. I quite fancy going Fishing, or doing some Chocobo Digging, or doing Emote Games with my Automaton for a few hours.

    But then Gain XP starts, and suddenly I am reminded that if I go fishing or do any other normal activity, I will be losing 10,000 Gil Per Second. Because that is the money I will make if I do Gain XP and kill a bunch of helpless weak mobs.

    This is actually harmful to the equilibrium of my gaming experience. In the past, I could just go fishing, and feel relaxed and happy, and not worry about losing 10,000 Gil Per Second.
    (3)
    Last edited by Stompa; 07-02-2019 at 01:04 PM. Reason: On legal advice.

  6. #16
    Player TullemoreAsuraFFXI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    144
    Character
    Tullemore
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    I completely agree with Stompa's above comment. But i will take it one step further: ALL automatically re-initializing RoE's that que based on earth calendar/clock (MUST) NEED to have the reward for sparks removed. Upon 2nd or beyond objective completions can be reformed so the objective is multiplied by 5x or 10x and awards a single copper voucher instead of the automatically obtained sparks.


    Also note, at the very start of this topic the design innovation i propose that would automatically add a generated augment to items obtained from sparks vendors, thus making those items disabled from sell to npc until augment is removed.
    (0)
    Last edited by TullemoreAsuraFFXI; 07-05-2019 at 12:06 PM.

  7. #17
    Player TullemoreAsuraFFXI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    144
    Character
    Tullemore
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    I am linking this topic to another because it is relevant since the only option other than SE paying billions of yen to police servers 24/7 with massive amounts of STF employees is to reform, evolve and over-haul the interface and how player to player commerce is accommodated with the internal system of capabilities and menus.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player Fatty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    21
    Character
    Fatts
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    I am on your side. But what you're suggesting is only going to hurt players. Because RMT and botters always move on to the Next Best Thing. As you remove more and more ways for legitimate players to acquire gil easily, the gil discrepancy between real players and botters will only increase.

    You will never fight RMT/botters by adjusting such mechanics.

    The problem has to be fixed at the root. It is undeniable that there are people that want to obtain gil for real money, because a lot of very important things in the game revolve around having a lot of gil. (You can reduce that by removing or reducing the gil dependency for obtaining the most sought-after items, like the ultimate weapons. This is one thing that can be done. But note that if gil becomes meaningless, player economy will be meaningless as well.)

    If we don't want to completely remove the player-driven economy aspect of the game, then the next most obvious choice is to make gil/real-money trade an actual part of the game itself. This is the route that has been taken by many MMOs, such as:

    * Eve Online
    * World of Warcraft
    * Elder Scrolls Online
    * Guild Wars 2
    * Star Trek Online
    * EverQuest II
    * RIFT

    The list goes on. Every major MMO out there went with this route.

    Because: As long as there's any type of in-game currency, there will be RMT involved. That's the nature of the world currently, and you cannot fight against that.

    But you can take away their weapon, by incorporating the trade into the game. This benefits the parent company rather than the "gold sellers," (and funds the game itself), and hence, their revenue stream goes away. And so does their motivation to bot. Bots (from the mechanized mass gold farmers) disappear. Which is the major source of the headache currently.

    Players can opt to bot however, but there will be much less motivation to do so: because unlike bots, players have a lot to lose: Permanent bans would kill their entire investment into the game itself, and their characters (which is the reason they'd want to bot in the first place). Because of this reason, player botting would never reach the heights of RMT botting. But, this has to be dealt with actively, with STF. Aka banhammers.

    Since the company would have increased revenue by incorporating currency trading, STF operations could be funded by this. So would the game itself, making new content possible.
    (0)

  9. #19
    Player TullemoreAsuraFFXI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    144
    Character
    Tullemore
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    Large sums of gil or the means by which honest players can quickly acquire it really isn't the issue here. Prices are much much much higher overall due to the prohibited business of RMT inflating the market. When market prices lower, that additionally lowers pricing for items which are sold to you. The serious issue here is to render scams, schemes and RMT activity on FFXI servers competitively ineffective through design.

    Read the proposal through and apply logical comprehension.

    As of now items sold to npc shop are removed out of the circulation of the market. With the proposal as conceptualized the players have the option to sell into a FFXI warehousing structure and those items remain in circulation.

    As of now scoundrels can, have, and do manipulate the AH pricing history illegitimately using false forced sales to lower a price of a item they wish to purchase in bulk or raise a price of a item they believe that they can retail at a higher price.
    With the proposal these actions and behaviors will have very minimal impact and a vast number of transactions will need to occur for drastic changes of value to happen.

    As of now ambitious and scheming accounts are corrupting the "EX" item tag system against the actual purpose of it's design intent.
    With the proposal everyone that resides on FFXI is placed into a vastly more unbiased economy with the benefit of unrestrained transactions within the proposed warehousing system with the benefit of previously destroyed items remaining in circulation and items previously determined to be unworthy of AH sale now becoming more readily available using the proposed system.

    With this proposal commerce will flourish and thrive.

    As of now corrupt individuals violate ToS through interactions with prohibited RMT to pay vastly higher prices than they could without these dishonorable means. The overall effect is that an honorable player is faced with these same vastly higher prices as a shopper. In addition to this detrimental consequence, the honorable player can additionally find that they are denied party participation as a result of a less developed itemization progress or party positions being determined by the mercenary culture.
    With this proposal intrinsic gil is retained on your account. Safeguarded gil is then exchanged through the warehousing/pawn shop interface between players which is mediated as described. Trade box is reformed to continue to allow the trade of tangible items with the interface for gil removed. Delivery box is reformed to continue to allow for all delivery with two changes. One in that the interface for gil is restricted to same account (or bound to account). The second would restrict equip-able items to delivery to same account. All eligible equip-able items would have sales listings in the new warehousing style marketplace and bazaar access status. Eligible equip-able items would be any equipment that has not received an augment, rank point upgrade or the JSE sets (Relic/AF/Empyrean).

    Upon the full implementation of the proposal the outcome will be : the disintegration of the ability for RMT to comfortably distribute assets, the disintegration of gil used as a medium for the mercenary culture, the disintegration of the limits and repercussions imposed by the current auction house, and the disintegration of schemes scams and other detrimental behavior corresponding with the corrupt procurement of defiled gil funds.
    (0)
    Last edited by TullemoreAsuraFFXI; 09-13-2019 at 01:28 PM.

  10. #20
    Player Fatty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    21
    Character
    Fatts
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    With your reply, I can only assume you have not read my post at all. I have nothing left to discuss here.
    (0)

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