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  1. #71
    Player Jerbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    245
    Character
    Jeral
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui View Post
    We have no plans to adjust the cooldown times at the moment.

    Our thought process behind this is that we want you to choose from among the two merit categories, and if you were able to easily switch on the fly, there would be no reason for us to have these two separate stances, and it would be difficult for each one to properly display its strengths.
    Honestly, there is already no reason for there to be separate stances for WHM. It was a bad idea when it was introduced, and remains so. I say get rid of them entirely.

    I know that's not the point that you're trying to get across with this statement, but it's true.

    The stances also don't really have strengths and weaknesses. The strength of Misery is that you've moved my old ailment removal tool Sacrifice, which I could previously use at will in Solace, and locked it behind a 1 minute timer. That's a punishment, not a strength, and I hate it. It also comes with the bitter aftertaste that you've removed our key ailment removal tool Esuna as part of the deal, so I'm not inclined to look upon the "strengths and weaknesses" of the stances favourably.

    Stances make sense in the following situations:
    • Force a player to choose a correct stance for an encounter and ride that stance for 90% of the time.
    • Encourage frequent stance swapping to access abilities locked by the stance timer (ostensibly SCH philosophy, but that's a whole different can of worms.)

    Neither of these really make sense for WHM. We need all our tools on the table for most fights, so lockouts are pointless. We need to react quickly, so flapping around with slow stance swaps is dangerous, awkward, frustrating, and unwieldy. I hate it.

    The only situation where these stances sort of made sense was the front line/back line divide (which these recent chances are moving away from!), but even then, there's no need for an explicit stance job ability. Cura and Esuna already only work when up close. Auspice accuracy/enlight effects obviously only work when not engaged. Was there really any reason for the stance in the first place? If, for mechanical/code reasons, there needs to be some "visible" aspect, make them job traits that are always active, in parallel.

    I still maintain that some of these tools (particularly Esuna) needed updating anyway (my previous suggestions covering that), but that's phase 2 of the WHM plan. Phase 1 is still reverting this unwanted change.

    I think it's really important to emphasise that faffing about with stances isn't the way to solve player dissatisfaction here. The changes to the spells are the key issue - the stances are just the lockouts that exacerbate the problem. If the stances are too restrictive for these tools to work properly in a decent form, we shouldn't be talking about their timers - they just need to be removed.

    Ultimately, I don't really care about the Misery cooldown time because I'm just not going to use it 99.9% of the time. So this hasn't made Misery more accessible to me, as was the intent. It's made it less accessible, and taken away some of my key tools. I hate it.

    Please revert these changes and come up with something different, preferably taking into account everyone's feedback here on the forums. Honestly, I'm a little disappointed that the only response to our feedback has been about stance cooldowns so far, because that's really not what 99% of the feedback has been about. I was really hopeful when you guys asked for feedback, but now I'm starting to dread that we're stuck with this accidental nerf.
    (2)

  2. #72
    Player Jerbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    245
    Character
    Jeral
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoji_Fujito View Post
    With regards to turning other spells obtainable for merit points into scroll form, we are considering doing this for other jobs when it’s their turn to receive updates.
    Big fan of this - please don't forget RDM, which has already received an update but also still has merit spells!
    (1)

  3. #73
    Player TullemoreAsuraFFXI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    69
    Character
    Tullemore
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    To address the Afflatus Solace and Afflatus Misery adjustment. The complaint occurs mostly from the changes displayed ->
    ~
    The effects of the white magic spell Esuna have been changed.
    Esuna now affects a single target.
    Esuna now removes all of the following status ailments, and does not require the caster to be affected by them.

    Poison / Paralysis / Blind / Silence / Curse/ Disease / Plague / Petrification

    While under the effects of Afflatus Misery, Esuna will also remove all status ailments removable with Erase, as well as Amnesia.
    The recast time has been increased from 30 seconds to 120 seconds.
    The MP cost has been increased from 24 to 178.

    The effects of the White Magic spell Sacrifice have been changed.
    When transferring a status ailment, the duration will be halved.
    Silence and petrification may now be transferred.
    During Afflatus Misery, the caster gains resistance to the ailment transferred, and hence will not become afflicted.
    ~
    Some of this is beneficial to the player. Esuna's effect potency and removal of Amnesia should be retained. All Sacrifice potency and benefits while under Afflatus Misery should be retained.

    What is detrimental is the vast increase in reuse timer and mp consumption on Esuna which was crippled by the loss of it's area of effect component.

    To keep Esuna as a single target spell, that adjusted spell needs to have the MP cost returned to 24 MP or reduced to below 24 MP and the base reuse timer of the spell lowered to the range of 5 to 6 seconds or just completely remove the reuse timer for the spell. That is the only way to compensate for the removal of the area of effect capability the pre-adjustment Esuna had.
    (2)

  4. #74
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    6,548
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by TullemoreAsuraFFXI View Post
    To address the Afflatus Solace and Afflatus Misery adjustment. The complaint occurs mostly from the changes displayed ->
    ~
    The effects of the white magic spell Esuna have been changed.
    Esuna now affects a single target.
    Esuna now removes all of the following status ailments, and does not require the caster to be affected by them.

    Poison / Paralysis / Blind / Silence / Curse/ Disease / Plague / Petrification

    While under the effects of Afflatus Misery, Esuna will also remove all status ailments removable with Erase, as well as Amnesia.
    The recast time has been increased from 30 seconds to 120 seconds.
    The MP cost has been increased from 24 to 178.

    The effects of the White Magic spell Sacrifice have been changed.
    When transferring a status ailment, the duration will be halved.
    Silence and petrification may now be transferred.
    During Afflatus Misery, the caster gains resistance to the ailment transferred, and hence will not become afflicted.
    ~
    Some of this is beneficial to the player. Esuna's effect potency and removal of Amnesia should be retained. All Sacrifice potency and benefits while under Afflatus Misery should be retained.

    What is detrimental is the vast increase in reuse timer and mp consumption on Esuna which was crippled by the loss of it's area of effect component.

    To keep Esuna as a single target spell, that adjusted spell needs to have the MP cost returned to 24 MP or reduced to below 24 MP and the base reuse timer of the spell lowered to the range of 5 to 6 seconds or just completely remove the reuse timer for the spell. That is the only way to compensate for the removal of the area of effect capability the pre-adjustment Esuna had.
    It makes literally zero sense to take a spell, even with enhanced capabilities, that was cheap and AOE, and make it both expensive and single target. Normally AoEs come at a higher cost th an single target effects...
    (1)

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  5. #75
    Dev Team Akihiko_Matsui's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    721
    Greetings, everyone. Matsui here.

    Thank you for all your feedback on the white mage job. It took us a little while to read through all the posts from each region, particularly because we wanted to hear your experiences after you tried them the recent changes for yourselves.

    We have reviewed each and every message you have given us and feel we have a good grasp on what the pain points for white mage players are. The development team is going to discuss what our next steps should be.

    It may take a little while before we have any more news, but I wanted to inform you that your voices have been heard and share with you what the current status is.

    Thank you again for all your opinions!
    (7)

  6. #76
    Dev Team Akihiko_Matsui's Avatar
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    Jun 2012
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    721

    Regarding Adjustments to White Mage

    First, we would like to thank everyone for all the discussions related to the white mage adjustments. We’ve looked over the feedback we’ve received from across the globe and have decided to make further adjustments to white mage in the next version update scheduled for July.

    The main goal here is to make Afflatus Misery a stance that specializes in recovering status effects. We’d like for Afflatus Misery to have priority in situations where players are affected heavily from status effects and make it possible to select their stance based on the enemies they face.

    By merging this goal with the adjustments made in the May version update we believe it will cover most of the feedback we have received. As such, we’d like to explain how we’ll address the two major points that were pointed out to us.

    ■ Ways to recover area-wide status effects have decreased
    Previously Esuna was used to recover area-wide status effects; however, we have changed the specifics of the spell so that it only affects a single target which created an inconvenience amongst our players. In order to address this, we’ll make spells other than Esuna and Erase have an area-wide effect while Afflatus Misery status is in effect. However, this still lacks in the number of ways to recover multiple status effects; therefore, while under the effect of Afflatus Misery we’ll also reduce the recast times for several white magic spells, which includes Esuna.

    ■ Sacrifice can no longer absorb multiple status effects
    While under the effects of Afflatus Solace player would use Sacrifice to absorb multiple status effects from the tanks, which is no longer possible. By using Esuna, players can now recover even more than absorbing. Due to this, we have no plans to make any further adjustments. Even while under the effects of Afflatus Solace, players can recover many status effects, and if you require recovering any negative status effects that require Erase, we’d like players to switch their stance and make use of Afflatus Misery. Also, we’ve decided that the white mage who cast Sacrifice gains the resistance, considering that they can also gain the effects of Divine Caress as well. As such, we have no plans to make any further changes.

    Regarding Esuna while under the effect of Afflatus Misery, we did look into lowering the MP cost, as well as making it area-wide. However, in order to avoid situations where Esuna becomes too powerful, and to avoid needing to make adjustments to monsters that usually requires Esuna, we have decided to make the above balancing adjustments.
    (2)

  7. #77
    Player Lizka's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    4
    Character
    Suavi
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    Hello Producer Matsui. Thank you for listening to our feedback, and thank you for your work on this aspect of the game. We're all very happy to see our White Mages get some care and attention!

    I have a comment about this statement:

    Quote Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui View Post
    In order to address this, we’ll make spells other than Esuna and Erase have an area-wide effect while Afflatus Misery status is in effect.
    I humbly urge you to not go ahead with this change as it is described here. Making all Status Removal spells become area-wide under Afflatus Misery would mean that White Mage's Mythic Weapon, Yagrush, suddenly becomes almost useless. We worked hard to make our Mythic Weapons, and Yagrush specifically is one of the few Mythic Weapons that truly changes how a job is played, thus bringing a lot of value to the effort to get it.

    I do not have an alternative proposal in mind unfortunately, but I am sure I am not the only one that has this concern about Yagrush.

    Thank you again for your time and consideration!
    (2)

  8. #78
    Player Xelltrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2
    Character
    Xelltrix
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    I think the idea seems fine as Yagrush users will still be able to have 100% AoE Status Effect Removal while under Solace so we won't have to worry about swapping to Misery and can continue to benefit from Solace's effects. I would suggest rebuffing Sacrifice, or at least allowing Esuna to remove all status effects (while remaining single target) when under the effects of Solace.
    (3)
    Last edited by Xelltrix; 06-22-2019 at 02:41 AM.

  9. #79
    Player Rwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    371
    Character
    Rwolf
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Thank you for listening to feedback. I still feel like Sacrifice doesn't have a significant use post update. It doesn't make sense to call it Sacrifice any more, it's just a self buff to WHM now. WHM has access to a lot of magic evasion that being silenced or petrified is rarely an issue.

    If it cannot return to it's former use due to Esuna, I would prefer the spell be removed altogether if it would give us spell space for barlight and bardark which would be much more useful.
    (1)

  10. #80
    Player Jerbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    245
    Character
    Jeral
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui View Post
    The main goal here is to make Afflatus Misery a stance that specializes in recovering status effects. We’d like for Afflatus Misery to have priority in situations where players are affected heavily from status effects and make it possible to select their stance based on the enemies they face.
    These proposed changes unfortunately don't solve the issues that have been raised.

    The aim of making Afflatus Misery a stance that specialises in removing status effects is fundamentally flawed.

    I understand that there is a desire to make Afflatus Misery "more useful" and more frequently used. This is a legitimate observation. I also understand (and fully endorse) the improvement of White Mage's ailment-removal capabilities, particularly in area of effect. However, the solution to these two problems does not lie in their combination.

    There are very few fights where the removal of status ailments is so divorced from healing HP that any distinction via stances makes sense. In any dangerous encounter where we actively require the benefits of Afflatus Solace in order to successfully keep our party alive, we also need to be at peak ailment-removal capability. Of course, there are very niche fights where this isn't the case, but if the intent is to make Afflatus Misery more useful, "niche" really shouldn't be the aim.

    Take Caturae monsters in Omen as an example. Single target and area of effect damage is high, both because the enemy uses high potency techniques and because it does so rapidly. Ailments are, for the most part, either applied in wide area of effect, or in large numbers to a single target. Choosing "better healing" or "better ailment removal" here is pointless because both are needed to the same extent, constantly, without artificially induced delays. This means that neither stance will ever have "priority", to use the wording used in this announcement. We will have to flip between stances. I do not have time to flip stances in challenging encounters. It is incredibly inconvenient and limiting for a job that needs to be able to react quickly and decisively.

    More importantly, it's also not fun. It's actually deeply irritating.

    I remember that one of the original intents behind Sacrifice/Esuna was to start by Sacrificing ailments, running in, swapping stances, and then using Esuna. The fact that very few people did that, despite it appearing powerful theoretically, should illustrate that the principle of stance swaps mid combat is flawed in reality.

    I'd like to acknowledge that White Mage having more tools for area of effect ailment removal is a really positive step. I say this as a Yagrush owner. I'd like to see more development in this area, though ensuring Yagrush's ultimate supremacy is of course important too. However, attaching this capability to a stance is the wrong step. Furthermore, restricting the area of effect bonus to exclude Erase means that this isn't a suitable replacement for the old Esuna at all.

    Honestly, if Afflatus Misery isn't useful, please just remove it and transfer all its boons to the spells themselves. Please don't try to make it relevant by making the job harder to play. That's not fun - it's a nerf.

    In short, please abandon the concept of making Afflatus Misery an ailment removal stance.

    A few ideas:

    Changes to stances:
    • Afflatus Solace becomes a job trait with identical effects that is always active, and accumulates stored power through healing, including via regen, blocking damage on party members with barspells or stoneskin, or removing status ailments.
    • Afflatus Misery instead changes stored power accumulation to be via raw damage taken and enfeebling effects received, without taking into account effects like barspells, magic evasion or damage taken gear, Stoneskin etc, and possibly include a bonus based on damage dealt as a proportion of damage received. It has no effect other than to change the power accumulation method.
    • Stored power is accumulated as charges indicated in the buff bar.
    Changes to spells:
    • Esuna keeps its current Misery effect but can no longer remove Amnesia. Its MP cost and recast time are high, but are reduced with each ailment it removes. No dependency on any stance.
    • Sacrifice keeps its current Misery effect and is renamed "Treatment". No dependency on any stance.
    • Amnesna spell added, with a long recast and moderate MP cost.
    • Panacea spell added. Consumes an Afflatus stored power charge to remove a single status ailment in AoE around targetted party member. If cast on self, replicates the old Esuna effect - removes two bonus effects without consuming stored power, but with an increased recast time. Asclepius increases the potency of this effect, just as it did with Esuna.
    • Holy spells, Banish spells, and Cura spells consume stored power charges.
    • Stoneskin, Blink and Aquaveil may be cast on party targets at the cost of a stored power charge.
    • Auspice no longer overwrites enspells, but is otherwise unchanged. No dependency on any stance.
    (3)

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