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  1. #1
    Player OmegaFFXI's Avatar
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    Petition for level 75 cap server

    https://www.change.org/p/official-sq...-75-era-server

    Greetings all. Please join me in supporting this petition for Square-Enix to produce an official level 75 cap era server.

    Many of us prefer older days. Legacy servers have grown substantially in popularity over the past 5 years for various MMOs. FFXI is one of the last older MMOs with no official legacy server.

    This is not about current FFXI vs. old FFXI. Legacy isn't for everyone, just like current FFXI isn't for everyone. Legacy servers have no impact on current version servers. You are free to contact any of the companies with an official legacy server and ask them yourself.

    Any questions or concerns, you can contact me at omegaffxi@gmail.com

    Thank you.
    (3)

  2. #2
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
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    Couple of points, one of which I believe was brought up by someone else.

    1). Who defines what 'classic' actually is?
    2). SE would have to produce two separate updates for the server(s). Unless you are suggesting it never gets updated?
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player Elexia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirmarki View Post
    Couple of points, one of which I believe was brought up by someone else.

    1). Who defines what 'classic' actually is?
    2). SE would have to produce two separate updates for the server(s). Unless you are suggesting it never gets updated?
    Easy answer to 1 actually since #2 depends on who you really talk to (concept is easy in terms of retroactive content inclusion but process not so much.)

    1. Classic is 75 era, 75 era only had the "classic gameplay" most people know of when referring to FFXI because it's what lasted the longest (2003-2009ish) - There's 3 very different versions of XI, Classic 75 Cap era, Abyssea era and Ilvl (current) era.
    (0)
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  4. #4
    Player OmegaFFXI's Avatar
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    A lot of times we just use the word classic/vanilla/legacy/era when referencing FFXI just because we're lazy, but in fact there's probably almost none of us that actually played "real" FFXI classic - JP launch. I think we mostly don't want to invent some new word just for FFXI. :P

    I can absolutely say, however, that most of the people I've talked to and read posts from regarding a 75 cap server want the server to stop at TOAU. People seem to be OK with the idea of a progression server as well (follows the expansion timeline, starts at classic/vanilla, progresses through ROTZ, then COP, then TOAU), but they still want it to stop at TOAU. No idea what kind of time frame there should be between expansions. Maybe 6 months? Everquest does 3 months on theirs.

    There are a small amount of people that want it to stop at WOTG. But it doesn't seem to be enough to warrant an official WOTG era server. (Sorry folks! Most people say they enjoyed WOTGs story but the copy/pasted empty zones turned them off. Many believe that Dancer and Scholar were too strong.)

    THAT SAID! People are on board with a few things from WOTG such as new spells, traits, and abilities. Some of those things helped with job balance (or so they say).

    Oh and while I talked about it in the petition, I just wanted to say that just about every official (or private!) legacy server I've ever played on has had SOME quality of life/modern changes. Something like level sync should absolutely be in from the start. Probably extra mog inventory spaces (FFXI had one of the worst inventory management systems out of any MMO back then!). They should still charge for extra Wardrobes of course!

    Honestly I think there's a lot of things that you could talk legacy players into accepting. Like possibly Home Point teleports only between cities. Maybe not needing your nation to own a region to do the supply quest for outpost warps (OP warps very important during those days, was one of the only forms of fast travel). Maybe changes to HNM timers or how they work like Fafnir etc. You just have to be careful not to add tooo much QoL/modern stuff, otherwise it begins to defeat the purpose of the server. Legacy players are looking for that level grind from the start of the game. They want to do it with other players. They want to beat story missions with other players.

    I lastly want to say, most of what I just said is my own personal thoughts and opinions, not necessarily things I personally want or am pushing for currently. I think that should this come to fruition, we would need to discuss each feature on a case by case basis so that people can share their opinions on them. I don't want people to think I am speaking for the legacy community when I mention those things (yet anyway, maybe later when I have more concrete data). The only thing I know for absolute sure that most people want, is TOAU to be the last expansion. I told Blizzard this same thing: a legacy server is an opportunity not only to go back in time, but an opportunity to change time, to make it even better than it was. Each time I have played on a legacy server, I've always gotten the same feelings that I did back then. That's how you know they've done it right, despite things not being 100% exactly the way they were back then due to some slight QoL/modern additions. You just have to make sure that the spirit of what people want from that era is still there.
    (2)
    Last edited by OmegaFFXI; 12-03-2018 at 02:15 AM.

  5. #5
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
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    We already have a really lengthy thread on this. Even if they could do it, a "75 server" would be a terrible idea. There are many reasons why:

    1) The game has continued on a very long time from when the level cap was 75, and there are those who still enjoy playing the game now, along with those who are but might be tempted by such a thing.
    This idea would divide the community while not likely bringing in many old players who have long since moved on to other things.


    2) Content. They would have to develop new content for both this and the normal game, and they just don't have the team to do something like that. If they stopped development on the current game to do that, that would upset a lot of people who put years of work into the game since then, and why should they lose their work so a few people can enjoy their rose tinted glasses for a bit?


    3) The passage of time. The game has recieved a modest amount of modernization over the years, and that would be lost by going back in time with the game version. Anyone who comes in and tries this will only find things eve more lacking compared to other modern games today. And unless the "classic server" recieves new content, the novelty of going back to the way things were will wear off quickly.


    4) Just not the same- Because we've all already done it before, the experience won't be the same as you remember. There will still be far fewer people playing than there were back then, and while t his is debatable, it was the community that truly made the game fun, more than the content, level cap, or anything else. I challenge you to disagree with this- Was it really fun bashing snippers for hours on end to gain a level or two, or was the real fun interacting with your friends and fellow adventurers, swapping stories and chatting while you play? I don't know about you, but it was the community that made this game so much fun for me, and you can't bring that back to a "classic server" without a time machine and a memory wipe.


    5) Potential for confusion- There aren't that many new players these days, but having different kinds of servers with different content would be confusing to new players, who could end up in one place or the other without really realizing it or what the difference is.


    6) Disagreement on what "Classic" is- Who decides when the game was the most "classic?" Was it before WoTG? Sometime during it? Maybe go back to Zilart? Do we keep the jobs released after that? No matter what SE chooses, some people aren't going to be happy. There are various theories on what led to the game's decline. Personally I think it was less content related (i.e. not caused by abyssea or WOTG or some other specific game feature) and more just players moving on to more modern games after so many years. WoW's growth far exceeded FFXI's at all times, not just at that point that some people believe the game was "killed." I think WoW and other games like it simply eclipsed the game to the point that people couldn't simply ignore it anymore, and FFXI just couldn't hope to compete without the big overhaul it couldn't get because of the PS2 at the time.


    Personally I wouldn't have time for the old grind anymore- I don't have time to do 5 hour raids every three days, and waiting days or weeks to collect upgrades and rewards sucks. It is really beyond me why anyone wants this or thinks it will be "just like the good ol' days" again, when it really won't be.

    Yes, a lot of my opinion is in this, but I feel I've raised some legitimate issues.


    1. Classic is 75 era, 75 era only had the "classic gameplay" most people know of when referring to FFXI because it's what lasted the longest (2003-2009ish) - There's 3 very different versions of XI, Classic 75 Cap era, Abyssea era and Ilvl (current) era.
    This isn't even true anymore. The game has been 99 cap longer than it was 75 cap at this point.
    (3)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 12-05-2018 at 05:12 AM.

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  6. #6
    Player OmegaFFXI's Avatar
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    1. Is the community not already divided though? It began during WOTG, back then there were 500-600K active subscriptions. Disappointment arose with the severe lack of content and all of the copy/pasted zones. Then Abyssea launched and it was more copy/pasted zones, which was the final nail in the coffin for most. During this time, active subs dropped by over half, and by the time Abyssea was over the game was in such bad shape that no one even cared to parse the sub numbers anymore. Today, it's estimated that FFXI has somewhere between 35K-40K active subs. I'm glad there are people who still enjoy current FFXI, but there are a lot of people who don't and they have nowhere to go except to other games. They moved on years ago after being burned repeatedly between 2007-2011. Between Wings of the Goddess, the 3 mini addon scenarios, and Abyssea, the game lost around 90% of its player base. Lastly, I don't expect anyone to leave retail for legacy. They're two different games marketed to two different types of players, just like every other legacy server.

    2. You would need to ask all of the other legacy server communities and companies if their legacy servers took away development and staff from the current version. From my experience it seems like two different versions are operated by two different teams. The legacy team is obviously a fraction of the size, since once the server is finished, there's no more development.

    3. Legacy servers are mostly developed for those who have experienced all versions of the game, and prefer the older version. That said, it does give an opportunity for people who have never played the older version the chance to experience it, and I've personally met people who are playing older eras and even the game for the first time on legacy servers. I still see players in-game that I met on legacy servers years ago.

    4. I have been playing on legacy servers for nearly two decades, and I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. It absolutely feels the same as it did back then, for every legacy server I've played on. The population depends on the game and the server. As for the community, it's the same too. I've already gone back and bashed snippers for hours, and the equivalent in other games too. And yes I prefer it and so do others.

    5. Doesn't seem to be an issue for other games, though I can certainly see the need for an explanation on the game's website.

    6. Ultimately, Square-Enix chooses. But they should probably discuss it with the community first. And yes, not everyone will be happy, as with every game and every thing in life. Most of the legacy players I've talked to want nothing beyond TOAU, and a small percentage of players want WOTG.
    (1)

  7. #7
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
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    The most successful implementations of "classic" servers ive seen still have all the game content as normal, they just lock all the expansions/addons/whatever until you decide you want to open them. That could be done with fairly low difficulty I would imagine. The way FFXI is designed you wouldn't even need special servers for that. It sounds like a far better idea to me than taking a time warp. Aside from that, SE would basically laugh at you if you asked them to form a second team to develop the "classic" version of the game. It really seems like a big investment to me with little potential payout.

    Very few people prefer the older versions of online games. Some games are big enough that they can make a niche bit of extra cash by having such a thing. FFXI isn't big enough for that IMO. The community is not already divided. THere is only one version of the game. People playing other games are not part of the community to divide.

    Really, you can't tell me that it's not going to get boring with an old version of the game frozen in time with no new content. It will be a fun nostalgia trip for a little while, for sure. But nobody is going to stay on that version of the game for years and years with zero updates/improvements.

    And honestly, we should really take this back to the original thread which is still right on the front page of the forum.
    (0)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 12-05-2018 at 07:52 AM.

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  8. #8
    Player OmegaFFXI's Avatar
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    Legacy Ultima Online (private only), Everquest, RuneScape, and Lineage 2 servers are all more popular than their live version servers.

    Progression is definitely an option. Everquesters enjoy progression servers. However with the nature of FFXI, I don't think progression is as necessary and won't feel the same as it does with Everquest. Expansions generally mean level cap increases but the only level cap increase in FFXI back then was between vanilla and ROTZ. A very tiny amount of NA players ever experienced the game pre-ROTZ so going from vanilla to ROTZ could be interesting. Also regarding EQ progression servers, once the server gets to around the 4th expansion, the population starts to drop because the game starts to get to the point that people begin to dislike (this would happen with FFXI if it progressed beyond TOAU), the company creates a new progression server from the beginning, most players start over there and it becomes the new most populated Everquest server again, rinse and repeat (EQ's level grind is WAY longer than FFXI's BTW). It's been happening since 2011. Everquest isn't more popular than Final Fantasy XI and neither is Ultima Online, by far. FFXI is more popular than live RuneScape but not Old School RuneScape. Not sure about Lineage 2, probably depends on region (they have legacy and live servers for NA, EU, RU, and SEA regions, so I'd say it's probably more popular one way or the other).

    You're right about most legacy servers simply disabling expansions and features. It's very easy to do and is something I have experience doing myself. It's also the most time efficient and cheapest way to achieve the goal. To my knowledge Blizzard is the only company to completely recreate an older version of a server from the ground up. They also didn't move employees to the Classic team, they hired a whole new one. I wouldn't expect SE to hire employees (maybe one?) for this nor create the server from scratch.

    People get bored of games, it doesn't matter if there is new content or not. People play until they get bored and then they move on to something else. MMO devs will tell you that the majority of MMO players play for 1-3 months and then move on, to do the same with another online game (with the older slower paced progression-wise games and more community based games keeping subscriptions a bit longer). A lot of them eventually come back around. There is of course those players whom never quit. That goes for legacy and live.

    The other thread isn't about this petition, and petitions don't get seen at the back of a 4 year old thread.
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmegaFFXI View Post
    The other thread isn't about this petition, and petitions don't get seen at the back of a 4 year old thread.
    1) petitions never do shit, and you're wasting your time with that
    2) It's on the front page, it will get seen. The fact that the thread has been around a long time means nothing. The "tales from the duty finder" thread dates back to practically the beginning of the FFXIV forums, and is still seen and posted in to this day.
    3) popularity in one game doesn't translate into popularity in another. All of those games were also bigger than FFXI. Also despite your opinion and the opiinion of others who are asking for this, many people have continued to enjoy the way the game has progressed. (I throughly disagree with any notion that the cap increase, or abyssea, or any content in particular "killed" the game, it was already on a downward trend before any of these things happened.)

    I mean, its pretty much an open and shut case. SE has *already* explicitly shot this idea down. They've clearly done a cost benefit analysis on it and determined that it wasn't worth essentially halting the current game in order to develop this. I myself would much rather see improvements and additions to the current game that let people play things they way they want to (i.e. level sync to a specified level instead of only being able to sync to a party member) without the need for special servers. From here, I"m going back to the well established thread if I have anything more to say on it.

    Your petition description is also full of really false statements about the current game and I wouldn't sign it for that reason alone. You also make a lot of loaded, unverifiable weasel-word statements to exaggerate the amount of interest. In particular I really took issue with this:
    Now I am going to attempt to talk about FFXI’s current community while hopefully not being too offensive. It is not my intention to offend anyone, I am just going to reiterate my experiences and what I’ve seen both in-game and on various FFXI forums. First I’ll talk about job acceptance. Many people get turned down for party invites simply due to the job they are playing. Even if they’ve beaten the content on the job before, they’ll still be turned down due to “meta mentality.”
    If you think this is worse now than it was back in the day, you clearly haven't played the game. My main jobs were Summoner (my character is galka btw), scholar, and Puppetmaster. I got crap for summoner mostly because of my race, but the others were just not that popular. WHenever a new job came out, I inevitably fell in love with the least popular one and had a real hard time getting parties. It was true at the beginning of the game, it was true at the peak of 75 content even more. If anything, it's less true today than it was back then. All the jobs I play that were always unpopular now get to see use in a lot of content. I have far less difficulty being accepted for content now than I did back in the 75 days. And that's with a smaller commounity too. So you're dead wrong here.


    Frankly I think if people can't accept that MMOs change and evolve as time goes on, then they shouldn't play MMOs.

    Finally, if you actually did look at the other thread, it may actually be literally impossible for them to restore an old version of the game, because the original devs failed to keep an archive of all their old builds- unclear why but given that FFXI was a huge game (in terms of data size) for its time, they might have not had the storage capacity to keep every single build.

    (edited slightly to sanitize language a bit)
    (4)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 12-06-2018 at 08:08 AM.

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  10. #10
    Player Haldarn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmegaFFXI View Post
    They moved on years ago after being burned repeatedly between 2007-2011. Between Wings of the Goddess, the 3 mini addon scenarios, and Abyssea, the game lost around 90% of its player base.
    Pretty sure that was less to do with what was going on in XI and more to do with the advent of XIV.
    (0)
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