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  1. #11
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
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    Nov 2015
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    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Zuidar View Post
    For me... I don't know how it was so sudden that they made this change from 1 guys' complaint on the jp forums when they talked about their playstyle... like really? BST was working as intended for long years before the devs decided to nerf the range of bst pet commands and that pretty much shifted a lot in playstyle. I really don't get this logic
    It is entirely because new content/gear (Su5/REMA augments) that is intended to be a selling point from the devs' POV was effectively requiring group-play oriented BST to intentionally make it harder to play in a group. Changing the Job Point category removes that roadblock for BST to do the new stuff without worries. If the Pet:Enmity+ category did not interact with the newest grind, the change would most likely not have happened.

    It probably helped that the player who brought up the issue made a convincing and logical argument w/o whining about it, (and did so in the devs' native language.)
    (1)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  2. #12
    Player Ketaru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    215
    Character
    Ketaru
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    /sigh

    Figured it'd end up being something like this, but seriously? Macc+1 per pt? This couldn't have been +2 or higher? Heck, it's only macc. This could be +10 per and it wouldn't have created any actual balance issues. :/ If we could land pet debuffs reliably, that could potentially care out a niche for us in group play. We do have some unique and powerful pet debuffs, but not the pet macc to make it worthwhile to use a party slot for that purpose.
    If they were going to do this, they should have gone all the way. The JP category should have been +Pet:Macc AND +Pet:Magic Burst Damage. And, while they were at it, replace the Fencer Job Gifts with +Pet:Magic Burst Damage. Enough that it would at least do a considerable amount of damage to a boss meant to be magic bursted (Kei, for example).
    (0)
    "NeED★RdM? PLeaSe sENd★teLL!"

  3. #13
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
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    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Ketaru View Post
    If they were going to do this, they should have gone all the way. The JP category should have been +Pet:Macc AND +Pet:Magic Burst Damage. And, while they were at it, replace the Fencer Job Gifts with +Pet:Magic Burst Damage. Enough that it would at least do a considerable amount of damage to a boss meant to be magic bursted (Kei, for example).
    It was not intended to be a damage buff. Nor was BST on the table for a complete overhaul at this time. They simply removed something that had become problematic and replaced it with something that other jobs wouldn't bitch about us getting. I'm just bummed that they made it a lolworthy adjustment with such a pitiful value attached to it.

    There are plenty of adjustments that could be made to BST that would do a helluvalot more to help the job than Pet:MBD. For instance, if they are going to take away Fencer, then it should be replaced with Dual Wield. Even just 1~2 tiers of natural DW would open up a ton of opportunities for gameplay/style choice. I vote no on your proposed changes.:3
    (2)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  4. #14
    Player Isola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    337
    Character
    Cylinath
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    I believe that DW I should not exist and that any job should be able to equip two single handed weapons if they so choose.

    it's quite unreasonable to be forced to sub ninja or dancer
    (0)

  5. #15
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
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    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Isola View Post
    I believe that DW I should not exist and that any job should be able to equip two single handed weapons if they so choose.

    it's quite unreasonable to be forced to sub ninja or dancer
    PLD, WHM, and GEO should not be able to naturally DW. lol Amend that to "any job which specializes in 1h melee weapons AND is intended to be actively engaged and meleeing with a focus on dealing damage" and I'll agree with you. The funny thing is that that would narrow it down to BST and maybe RDM and BRD. ^^;; I don't know how hard a sell it would be to get RDM covered, since they do have other roles besides whacking away on things. BRD might have a case given how SE seems to be pushing battlebard style recently, but again, a bit iffy since that's never really been intended to be a core part of the job that everyone is expected to do.

    NIN/DNC/THF/BLU are the only other 1h melee DD specialists, and they all have access to native DW at this point. BST is genuinely the only oddmanout here, since we are a 1h job that the devteam has decreed should be meleeing alongside their pets, but we have zero support or incentive to do so baked into the job itself.

    /derail
    Sorry OP. ^^;;
    (0)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  6. #16
    Player Ketaru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    215
    Character
    Ketaru
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    PLD, WHM, and GEO should not be able to naturally DW. lol Amend that to "any job which specializes in 1h melee weapons AND is intended to be actively engaged and meleeing with a focus on dealing damage" and I'll agree with you. The funny thing is that that would narrow it down to BST and maybe RDM and BRD. ^^;; I don't know how hard a sell it would be to get RDM covered, since they do have other roles besides whacking away on things. BRD might have a case given how SE seems to be pushing battlebard style recently, but again, a bit iffy since that's never really been intended to be a core part of the job that everyone is expected to do.

    NIN/DNC/THF/BLU are the only other 1h melee DD specialists, and they all have access to native DW at this point. BST is genuinely the only oddmanout here, since we are a 1h job that the devteam has decreed should be meleeing alongside their pets, but we have zero support or incentive to do so baked into the job itself.

    /derail
    Sorry OP. ^^;;
    It is a rather unseemly exception to gear-related enhancements to players, though isn't it. If I wear +DW gear, I don't suddenly get the ability to wield two weapons as though I had whatever DW amount was available through gear. Yet if I wear +Double Attack gear, I gain the ability to swing more than once, even if I don't have the Double Attack trait. Same with Magic Attack Bonus. Could you imagine being a RNG trying to gear for Trueflight, and no amount +MAB will improve its damage unless you sub /RDM or /BLM or something with innate Magic Attack Bonus trait first?
    (2)
    "NeED★RdM? PLeaSe sENd★teLL!"

  7. #17
    Player Isola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    337
    Character
    Cylinath
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Ketaru View Post
    It is a rather unseemly exception to gear-related enhancements to players, though isn't it. If I wear +DW gear, I don't suddenly get the ability to wield two weapons as though I had whatever DW amount was available through gear. Yet if I wear +Double Attack gear, I gain the ability to swing more than once, even if I don't have the Double Attack trait. Same with Magic Attack Bonus. Could you imagine being a RNG trying to gear for Trueflight, and no amount +MAB will improve its damage unless you sub /RDM or /BLM or something with innate Magic Attack Bonus trait first?
    This dude gets it

    I believe DW is the singular trait that works that way. It's the only one I can think of that only "enhances trait" instead of "enables base trait if zero"

    Imagine if you HAD to sub THF to get TH+1 to work. Or Sub samurai to get Store TP + to work, lul
    (1)
    Last edited by Isola; 11-12-2018 at 03:39 PM.

  8. #18
    Player Xilk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    677
    Character
    Xilkk
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Ack, Completely Derailed x6.

    You know ppl, it IS possible to create your own thread on these forums. Really, anyone who can post can make a thread.

    (Psst... Look I'll show you, go right back up to the BST job level, there will be a new thread about Dual Wield!)
    (1)
    Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
    --Beastmaster Forever--

  9. #19
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilk View Post
    Ack, Completely Derailed x6.

    You know ppl, it IS possible to create your own thread on these forums. Really, anyone who can post can make a thread.

    (Psst... Look I'll show you, go right back up to the BST job level, there will be a new thread about Dual Wield!)
    Bah, you beat me to the new thread. XD Once again, sorry for the derail. {Please forgive me.}
    (0)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  10. #20
    Player Xilk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    677
    Character
    Xilkk
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Bah, you beat me to the new thread. XD Once again, sorry for the derail. {Please forgive me.}
    no worries really. it was derailed pretty good before the dual wield discussion.

    I'm mostlly annoyed at the update because they didn't really fix the enmity management issue. They just flipped it the way the Japanese player wanted. Which I accept he has a legitimate concern. However, they changed it in a way that will cause the inverted issue, of: "Beastmaster cannot tank because pet cannot keep hate"

    I don't think it was the best solution. It was pretty mediocre.
    (0)
    Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
    --Beastmaster Forever--

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